Not signed in (Sign In)

Discussion Tag Cloud

Categories

Vanilla 1.1.9 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

    • CommentAuthorSpez_2
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2011 edited
     
    After many months 'off track", I can present this new project under construction. Thunder Dolphin at Dome City, Tokyo.
    I always liked the concept of rides in a city. Looks like Tokyo citizens see it the same way. They have a few parks like this in town. This one is spectacular.
    Here's a few pics of the progress. Make a search on the web for comparisons and more details.









    I want a particularly detailed giant wheel. Supports will be hard work but worth it, hopefully.

    Leave some comments.
  1.  
    Oh my god, I love it. Newton or handbuilt?
    •  
      CommentAuthorDC High Heat
    • CommentTimeApr 30th 2011 edited
     
    I hope you end up doing a good job with this one. Make sure to focus on getting the trackwork details right, as there are many on this ride. I'm really excited to see it in NL so good luck.
  2.  
    Looking good.
    • CommentAuthorSpez_2
    • CommentTimeApr 30th 2011
     
    Posted By: A.S.CoastersOh my god, I love it. Newton or handbuilt?


    That will be handbuilt. I'm sure it will be decent, technically. Is there a way to import a complete NL track into Newton? This way I would use it. But from scratch.... hum...



    Posted By: DC High HeatI hope you end up doing a good job with this one. Make sure to focus on getting the trackwork details right, as there are many on this ride. I'm really excited to see it in NL so good luck.


    I intend to be as detail oriented as possible. The track and supports will be highly detailed. At least as the wheel you see on pictures. The main building and a few structures such as the stadium across the street, some highrise buildings, should be accurate too. But that will depend on how much time i spent on the most important stuff, I guess.
  3.  
    That will be handbuilt. I'm sure it will be decent, technically. Is there a way to import a complete NL track into Newton? This way I would use it. But from scratch.... hum...

    No, you can't import tracks into Newton. That'd be backwards...I can't really see how that would work even.
    • CommentAuthorSpez_2
    • CommentTimeApr 30th 2011
     
    Posted By: AJClarke0912
    That will be handbuilt. I'm sure it will be decent, technically. Is there a way to import a complete NL track into Newton? This way I would use it. But from scratch.... hum...

    No, you can't import tracks into Newton. That'd be backwards...I can't really see how that would work even.


    I was thinking: If it was possible, it would be interesting to do the first draft on NL, get quickly the right layout and propostions, then perfect the little details in Newton before reimpoting in NL as a better track. I assumed it might be faster this way, but then again I never used Newton. I'm not familiar at all with it.
    Still, I think I'll be able to make a good track without it. Note however that, if you look at my previous work (Son of Beast, for example), I always favor scenary and environment over trackwork. I'm more confortable with these aspects of the task.
  4.  
    Yeah a lot of people, myself included, will be looking at trackwork over scenery. I figure why spend so much time on scenery if you're not going to perfect trackwork as much as possible? Might as well do it justice.

    When I said details, I was mostly referring to the small details in trackwork...the way the track moves on transitions, for example. Just make sure you watch a POV often, and compare to trackwork many times.

    I think what you said about starting by hand and redoing the track with Newton is a good idea. It'll be tough to get right on your first try with Newton, but once you figure things out the building process is fast enough that you can make two or three iterations of increasing quality without taking up too much time.
    • CommentAuthorSpez_2
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2011
     
    An update:

    The main building is almost finished. The rest of the park infrastructure will follow. I need all these structures before working on the ride supports, which are standing on the buildings.





    The station is also progressing.





    In the background (and foregound of first picture), a first draft of the Dome, without its base.

  5.  
    PLEASE work on your track shaping lol. Your scenery looks excellent thus far, but this is a coaster simulator first and foremost IMO. If you can do that well on scenery, then you can do just as well with the track...you have the skill. You just need to take the time to figure things out and make it look as close to the real thing as possible. Comparison pictures are your friends; use them often. Note slopes, starting and ending points of banking, bank magnitude at the maximum of each element, incline and drop inflection points, radii, heights, absolute and relative element spacing, then worry about making sure it's smooth. You can do it...you just have to believe in yourself enough to realize it's worth going that extra mile to do it right.
  6.  
    Yeah, this looks gorgeous besides the trackwork. It seems pretty off from the real thing in terms of the shaping.
  7.  
    I would personally start from scratch on the track-work. It has some pretty obvious flaws, especially the drop.
    Scenery looks really nice. ;)
    • CommentAuthorSpez_2
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2011
     
    Details on trackwork are still going on. No need to start from scratch. Obviously, updates, pictures will emphasize other aspects. Besides, nothing you see on these images is final version. Every so often, I place objects in the simulator to see what it looks like. I have to do this a lot with textures in particular. NL does not take in charge all the material mapping capabilities offered in 3ds.
    • CommentAuthorReal
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2011
     
    Oh, well, I might just say the easiest part of the ride to get right...youve bombed on so far.

    http://rcdb.com/1845.htm?p=4326

    That lift is basically a small MF. Slightly smaller radius by ratio than MF providing a less round drop, but same angle of descent and overall, still similar in my eyes. Yours is super pointy at the top.

    And thats going to make you redesign the whole first drop and pull up. Maybe even first turn element. Get crackin!
    • CommentAuthorSpez_2
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2013
     
    Thunder Dolphin had been closed for quite a long time after an accident. But it reopened recently. Yesterday I started to work on it again.
    I give a first shot at the supports underneath the main drop. Following are pictures of my first draft of it. More cables will be needed afterward.
    You will also notice that the Merry Go Round and the pool had been added.









    And these are 2 orthographic views (2D, flatten representations) of the buildings taken without supports. I work the supports in another scene from the 3d modeler. The 'Big O' creates lag with its complex mesh. I kind of like the effects of those shots.



  8.  
    Wow. Great recreation of a great coaster. Is it hand built?
  9.  
    ^Facepalm.

    Anyway, you can import an NL track into FVD++ and then trace over it.
  10.  
    The shaping of the drop can be fixed in FVD++. Right now, that's easily one of the biggest detractors.
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2013
     
    Wow, this is really, really good! Looks exactly like the real thing. If you ever need help with shaping just whisper me and I can help. But I love the details on this. How extensive are they going to be though? I'd love to at least see the pathways and the log flume.
    • CommentAuthorlujach92
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2013
     
    Didn't know that Thunder Dolphin resumed operation, nice news!
    Your supportwork on the lifthill looks amazing just jet, same thing for the Big-O. Looking forward to further updates.
  11.  
    Well this is exciting! Big undertaking and I hope you haven't bitten off more that you can chew.
  12.  
    Your scene is looking excellent, but I really question the trackwork. Compare your first drop to the real one...your apex is tiny in relation. I'm sure there are other issues that should be corrected too based on that. With such a complex scene (meaning lots of modeling) I think it's absolutely crucial to do better with the trackwork. That's just me though.
    • CommentAuthorSpez_2
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2013
     
    I have worked on the cables. Here's a few updates :







    This last picture will bring back the issue of the tip of the hill...

    Posted By: DC High HeatYour scene is looking excellent, but I really question the trackwork. Compare your first drop to the real one...your apex is tiny in relation. I'm sure there are other issues that should be corrected too based on that. With such a complex scene (meaning lots of modeling) I think it's absolutely crucial to do better with the trackwork. That's just me though.


    Surely it could be improved but I have a hard time finding an appropriate angle image. This is one I have and it still not great:



    Can somebody post a clear and 'flat' image of this, not a weird angle ? ( It's not too late; nothing is attached permanently to the track and existing objects are adaptable.)
    • CommentAuthorAyTrane
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2013
     
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GbfoVqchZjI/Uio8rXUpwrI/AAAAAAAAP3o/rJCtNYYWleQ/s1600/DSC_0054.JPG

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FglD6Y46esc/Uio8h2OkUwI/AAAAAAAAP3g/F8lg1NhdFrE/s1600/DSC_0048.JPG

    You may have to use several photos to get an idea of how segments are shaped. I usually place some supports and rely on spacing and intersection points for reference. The supports dont have to be final, but they really do help.


    I found a lot of photos of the ride just by searching "Tokyo Dome City" in Google.

    The ride looks good so far!
  13.  
    Will it have a night version like AyTrane's Millennium Force? Please upload Millennium Force here.
  14.  
    A couple minutes of Google and I got this:

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_oI3pbZeYjZk/TFAXJjur-II/AAAAAAAABJg/v1yfnrYpvkU/s1600/CIMG1605.JPG

    Not a perfect side view, but it should be close enough to help out.
    •  
      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeOct 13th 2013
     
    Wow, the amount of detail is astonishing. What is your current poly count?
    • CommentAuthorSpez_2
    • CommentTimeOct 13th 2013
     
    Posted By: AyTranehttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GbfoVqchZjI/Uio8rXUpwrI/AAAAAAAAP3o/rJCtNYYWleQ/s1600/DSC_0054.JPG

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FglD6Y46esc/Uio8h2OkUwI/AAAAAAAAP3g/F8lg1NhdFrE/s1600/DSC_0048.JPG

    You may have to use several photos to get an idea of how segments are shaped. I usually place some supports and rely on spacing and intersection points for reference. The supports dont have to be final, but they really do help.


    I found a lot of photos of the ride just by searching "Tokyo Dome City" in Google.

    The ride looks good so far!


    Posted By: DC High HeatA couple minutes of Google and I got this:

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_oI3pbZeYjZk/TFAXJjur-II/AAAAAAAABJg/v1yfnrYpvkU/s1600/CIMG1605.JPG

    Not a perfect side view, but it should be close enough to help out.



    Thanks for these links, guys. It certainly helped. The first picture shows the smoother and wider apex.




    Today I worked support details such as ladder passage, vertical carrier for the lift cable and other secondary supports






    The ladder cage without a ladder... I did make one, but its positioning in No Limits didn't work. I think I know why and I'll redo the ladder later using another technique.





    Posted By: baadrixWow, the amount of detail is astonishing. What is your current poly count?


    I forgot to check for that but by the time this is done the number might be scary...

    Posted By: JAKoolWow, this is really, really good! Looks exactly like the real thing. If you ever need help with shaping just whisper me and I can help. But I love the details on this. How extensive are they going to be though? I'd love to at least see the pathways and the log flume.


    I plan for pathways and log flume, but it will depend how much energy I have left after doing those crazy supports !
  15.  
    It looks amazing! You might want to use support tubes and nodes instead of .3ds for the supports to save lag and improve frame rates.
  16.  
    Remember, a larger apex isn't the whole solution. You have to look at the length of the leadout between constant radius and infinite radius, the shape of said leadout, the location of the inflection point, and the max slope. Don't forget those things! Hard to tell but looks like yours might flatten out a bit early. Just something to look into. :)
    • CommentAuthorSpez_2
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2013
     
    Lately I changed some proportions and details in the supports, its base and the first drop.

    The first shot shows the improved hilltop and first drop :



    The ladder is back :



    I have been working on the lift supports base. Work still in progress. A shot from 3ds Max :



    The next 2 shots shows the same in NL :





    I also re-shaped the doughnut hole to look more like the odd shape of the real one. Still not satisfied with it though :



    The same hole with a better view of the merry-go-round in the foreground :



    This last shot shows in the background my next concern in terms of trackwork, the first right turn :



    This turn gives me trouble. Still trying to find the perfect picture of it. (Videos are incredibly shaky)

    And one question: Does anybody knows the exact speed of the lift cable? (At least I got rid of the chain in the simulator)
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2013
     
    The drop should still be better. It's too straight.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAJClarke0912
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2013 edited
     

    Please tell me that's the FOV and not a track pulling up right after the crest...

    I want to believe.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBBSpeed26
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2013
     

    Yea, first drop shape is still very wrong.

    If you would show us a proper side view with normal FOV, we could be more precise. It's going to show up sooner or later (like, when you have to start modifying your recreation's scenery and/or supports because your track isn't where it should be), so you might as well be up front about it now so we can help!

    • CommentAuthorA113
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2013
     
    Your pull out of the drop is way too early, it shouldn't pull up until a little after halfway down.
    • CommentAuthorSpez_2
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2013
     
    Yesterday I experienced trouble with my track file because of Tunnelmaker. I periodically tunnel my track to create a mockup of it that I use in 3ds. But sometimes Tunnelmaker messes up the track file. The entire working area was inundated with water even though it was flat, level. Terraformer was fucked, unable to correct and no environment anymore. The track itself was ok but basically the file was corrupt. So what to do? I saved every segment as an element and was able to rebuild quickly in a former version. It worked but it occurred to me: many of my troubles were caused by a lift and first drop oriented in an odd way. I first conceived the whole thing following the North/south axis. So everything was oriented in an odd, non convenient way, including my supports of course.
    So today I rebuilt the track oriented conformed to the NL grid, which should facilitate corrections and comprehension of that part of the track shape.

    An orthographic image of the first drop in NL.



    Its getting better. Any further corrections of it will now take minutes. Not hours...


    My next step will be to apply the same re-orientation in 3ds, re-import objects in NL and reconfigure the satellite image (this last detail is not urgent though, so next posts might not show it)
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2013
     
    So you have to do all the 3ds over again?

    The drop looks pretty good now. Just smooth it a bit.
    • CommentAuthorSpez_2
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2013
     
    Posted By: JAKoolSo you have to do all the 3ds over again?

    The drop looks pretty good now. Just smooth it a bit.


    I won't have to rebuild them again. I needed to rotate everything so it align with the grid. Below you can see a before and after in NL Editor.



    And this is the same top view in 3ds. The background image doesn't conform anymore. I'll change it later.

    •  
      CommentAuthorUncleArly
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2013
     
    Never realised it has a triangular layout. That is interesting.
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2013
     
    Ah, this makes me want to go back to Tokyo so badly. Such a fun ride...
    •  
      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2013 edited
     
    I don't quite understand why the lift is a transport segment.
    The amount of 3ds (and likely the quality of those considering the ones you've already shown) is simply overwhelming. I really hope the trackwork is as good as the scenery, though.
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2013
     
    ^I assume it's so he can have a custom lift.
    • CommentAuthorTOGO Fan
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2013
     
    Press E stop while near the top of the lift and "bad things will happen."
    • CommentAuthorSpez_2
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2013
     
    Posted By: JAKool^I assume it's so he can have a custom lift.


    That is correct. I will need to do this:



    I might be able to cover the chain with this, but not the big pulley at the top of the hill. I will have a complete custom cable lift system with engine at the bottom. I don't have good pictures of that engine, but I believe Expedition G-Force uses something similar, and there are good pics of that engine on the net. (I saw them before)
    •  
      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2013
     
    I'd really suggest to change the lift, you could also use a brake segment which also acts as a block that way. And e-stop isn't a problem anymore, too. :)
  17.  
    Actually, I wouldn't see e-stop being a problem here. The reason why is because the train will not leave the station until the next block is clear, which in this case with a lift made of transport segments, would be the final break run. There's no real way that it could crash in the circuit, because the next train wouldn't even start up the lift until the final break run is clear.
    •  
      CommentAuthorL Bosch
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2013 edited
     
    Posted By: Mr. CoasterActually, I wouldn't see e-stop being a problem here.

    What about having a roll back into the station? I see a problem here. (kind of a NL bug, but still...)
    • CommentAuthorlujach92
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2013 edited
     
    Posted By: Spez_2I will have a complete custom cable lift system with engine at the bottom. I don't have good pictures of that engine, but I believe Expedition G-Force uses something similar
    EGF uses a cable lift with engine at the bottom indeed, I don't know how the setting is on Thunder Dolphin but at EGF the liftcable is routed down vertically at first and then returns to the station. The engine that coils up the cable is located under the station.

    These two pictures od EGF and Thunder Dolphin might help

    • CommentAuthorSpez_2
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2013
     
    Posted By: lujach92
    Posted By: Spez_2I will have a complete custom cable lift system with engine at the bottom. I don't have good pictures of that engine, but I believe Expedition G-Force uses something similar
    EGF uses a cable lift with engine at the bottom indeed, I don't know how the setting is on Thunder Dolphin but at EGF the liftcable is routed down vertically at first and then returns to the station. The engine that coils up the cable is located under the station.

    These two pictures od EGF and Thunder Dolphin might help



    Unfortunately, I can't ses those pictures...

    Meanwhile, the catwalk and tracking device look like this in 3ds (unfinished)





    Please note that once in the Simulator, supports for the catwalk might not always align very well with the track's ties.
    •  
      CommentAuthorL Bosch
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2013
     
    I'm pretty sure the real lift is not plastered with catchcars. It's more like, one catchcar and a lot of steel cable attached to it.