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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2011 edited
     
    Hi NLE members,

    yesterday a random idea popped into my head. What about a B&M Coaster with weirdly shaped elements (like in Hair Raiser @ Ocean Park, China or Krake @ Heide-Park, Germany).
    I'd like to include an "opposite-rotating Immelman" and an "opposite-rotating Dive Loop" and a Cobra Roll with a 90° banking at the top. Perhaps you know some crazy elements which I can include, too ...

    [pictures removed, please check the latest update]
  1.  
    I did this on Ventus, and some people liked it, and some didnt.... I decided to redo the whole project... I'm not sure about peoples thoughts on this though... the transition looks too snappy... B&M threw that out the window, lol, try a more fluid transition on the rolls...
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      CommentAuthorOinzCEO17
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2011
     
    I like it, different, original (of course, person above me did this I guess, never saw it so this is a new element to me) and I'd wanna see these other elements you had in mind, opposite dive loop, 90 degrees cobra roll, they sound interesting.
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      CommentAuthorBBSpeed26
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2011
     

    Neat idea.

    A few words of caution though - remember that some of the new-school B&M elements aren't weird just to be weird (e.g. Krake's immelman roll almost certainly has floatier tendencies than a standard immelman, and is likely a bit more disorienting), and still all have that flowing, new-B&M feel. In the element that you posted, I really dig the idea, but I worry that roll is too quick (regardless of the Gs... maybe go longer time zone with a higher tension to achieve a similar result more smoothly), and it looks like you have an awkward, quick radius tightening in that element that occurs right around the time that the roll starts.

    Best of luck though, I'll be keeping track of this.

  2.  
    I agree with BBSpeed...you need a longer roll transition. Other than that, it looks really fun!
  3.  
    Like I said, try to stay away from snap transitions.
  4.  
    The whole element looks enormous, what height is the immelman alone? I might be into this ride but not if its unrealistically huge.
    • CommentAuthorReal
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2011
     
    One could maybe argue you roll out so fast, you are never really "upside down" to the definition. Probably are, but might be close.
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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2011 edited
     
    UPDATE ...
    I played around with the colours and made the roll much more smoother. Now it doesn't look exactly like an Immelman, but has max. about 0.3 lateral G's (front row, outside). In the last pic you can see the current colour scheme, the supports will have the same colour as the train.

    I also think I found a name for this coaster: Mysteryland (I hope you like it ...)

    @The_Architect: The height of the lift hill is about 240 ft (73 m), the Immelman is 190 ft (58 m) high. I hope it's not unrealistically huge, although it's a new record among Floorless B&M coasters.

    EDIT: pictures removed, please check the latest update
    • CommentAuthorrctthebest
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2011
     
    lol, that''s not only a record of Floorless, but it also would be the highest B&M in the world. i would make it alot smaller, something like 40 meters is already quite huge.
    i like the element a lot. it doesn''t look very realistic, but it''s original.
  5.  
    ^ actually there building a B&M giga as we speak XD
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      CommentAuthorBBSpeed26
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2011
     

    If it rides right, that could be a very cool element. Very interesting. With that height though, something to keep in mind - be wary of long, high-G areas... it's much easier to accidentally build 5 seconds of 4G track when the train is really moving (as it might be after dropping 240+ ft) than it is if you're only chugging along at 40-50 mph.

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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2011
     
    ^Thank you for the hint, but I'm aware of this issue - in the first valley there are about 4 G's held for only 1 second while having 2.5 seconds for the lead-in from 0.26 G's (first drop) and 1.7 seconds for the lead-out to 0 G. After this element(*) there's a transition to 4 G's that takes 2.8 seconds, so I think it's okay.

    (*)Btw, what name should that "thing" get?
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      CommentAuthorBBSpeed26
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2011
     

    Yep, all of that is fine.

    • CommentAuthorbigjoe97
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2011
     
    How about "Immel-hill"?
  6.  
    just wodered if you saw this then thought of doing this? :P

    Photobucket

    i love this type element! keep the good work up :)
  7.  
    Posted By: Brett-Jones^ actually there building a B&M giga as we speak XD


    citation needed.
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      CommentAuthorBBSpeed26
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2011 edited
     

    Citation provided (scroll till pictures happen)

    Announcement happens in 15 hours, so we'll shortly know for sure if that footer label is lying to us or not.

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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2011 edited
     
    ^^^Indeed, I saw this picture once, but I didn't take a close look, but yes, my element looks like this one.
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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2011 edited
     
    Sorry for the double post, but here is a small update: What do you think about this 90° Cobra Roll?
    Should I change the banking or the G's at some spots (at the moment, there are 2.5 G's in the middle part)? Or is this element weird enough to be kept in this coaster?
    If you need another point of view, just tell me.

    EDIT: see page 3 for latest pictures ...
  8.  
    I like it... some tweaking and it will be fine...
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      CommentAuthorBBSpeed26
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2011
     

    Not crazy about it to be honest. Like the idea, dislike the execution... it looks too disjointed as it is. It seems to do most of its 'unrolling', get to about 90 degrees banking, then abruptly add Gs and again decrease banking to get from the half loop to the middle of the trough.

    I think you'd be better off aiming for something a little closer to a super-sized, B&M-ified version of this element on Takabisha. Basically, I'd try to really only have one 'unbanking' motion, and one 'rebanking' motion to get in and out of the 'trough' part of the cobra roll. Maybe try to keep there from really being a dip at all in the 'trough'? It'd be cool if the most it ever de-banked was to 90 degrees on its side at the center of the element.

  9.  
    The name reminds me of Maryland
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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2011
     
    ^But I didn't take inspiration from there ;)
    I have the (strange?) habit to name my coaster after songs which are in my playlist. "Mysteryland" also seemed to fit here, as this record-braking coaster has some mysterious elements ...
    •  
      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2011 edited
     
    Update!!!
    Here is how my strange Cobra Roll looks like now. This element feels smooth while riding, I ensure!
    I hope you like it, but critizism is welcome, too.

    EDIT: pictures removed, please check the latest update
  10.  
    i'd list this one as fantasy
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      CommentAuthorBBSpeed26
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2011
     

    Could be good, can't quite tell. From the top angle, it still looks like you go from the rolling, straight heartline pretty abruptly into the tight curve of the trough. It could work, but it could also be kinda herky-jerky (which I think might contrast awkwardly with what looks to be a soaring, fluid first element.

    Can't say for sure without riding it though, so I guess that's your call.

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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2011 edited
     
    ^^Why do you think - according to the latest B&M style - that they won't build this coaster in real life?
  11.  

    ^I honestly don't think they're that wild with their shaping yet-look to the renderings of the giga, Hair Raiser (especially this one!), and just about any other B&M made after 2009-the examples get more and more poignant the closer you get to today. I believe you may have gone a bit out of the realm of feasibility-label it as 'fantasy.'

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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2011 edited
     
    Update! :D
    I recreated the layout and added an opposite-rotating Dive Loop and an opposite-rotating Immelman to the (also slightly changed) "Immel-hill" (thanks to bigjoe97) ;)

    Hope you like it so far ...

    EDIT: pictures removed, please check the latest update
    • CommentAuthorbigjoe97
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2011
     
    Your opposite-rotating Immelmann pic doesn't show up.
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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2011
     
    Does anybody else have this problem, too?
    'Cause I can see all pics ...
  12.  
    i cant see the very last one.
  13.  
    me either.... also... your "immel-hill looks strikingly similar to my drop on Hurricane but in reverse..... hmmmm...
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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2011
     
    Problem solved, the pic was deleted - don't know why ...
    •  
      CommentAuthorBBSpeed26
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2011 edited
     

    coasterguy -

    First, eh... a little, but not really.

    Second, look at the dates - August 17th was when baadrix first posted a picture of the "immel-hill". You didn't even start your Hurricane thread (back when it was an inversionless, family standup) until September 6th. Your color scheme is even similar to his. So who is copying whom? Plus, your "drop" on Hurricane is almost identical (even going in the right direction!!!) to the rolling dive on the tophat of my team's 3 Blind Mice entry Sanctus. The rolling dive that * I * designed months ago. You copycat. :P

    I'm being more than a little sarcastic. Creating a track element and posting it or an image of it on NLE doesn't make it uniquely "yours". You don't get "dibs", and you shouldn't expect people to not build similar elements - especially if it's a good idea. You (and several others here) would do well to stop worrying if someone else's track looks like yours, and focus more on making sure that your track is as good as it can be. Even if you want to treat it as a competition - try to be better, no one cares if you're first. If two similar tracks get released back-to-back and one of them totally kicks the other one's tail, guess which one people remember. Make sure that's your track.


    baadrix -

    Looking good. If those two inversions ride as smoothly as the immel-hill does, they should be soaring, floaty fun. If I were you though, I might consider two things:

    1) Exaggerate the opposite-rotating-ness more. See how the half-loops on your immelman/dive loops are slanted a bit? Slant them the other way... maybe a lot (like 20+ degrees off vertical instead of 5-10). Since they're so huge, a little of the unusual-ness of them being opposite-rotating is lost.

    2) Maybe break them up a bit... a high speed turn ala Leviathan in between them wouldn't hurt (and you certainly have enough speed), and it would help differentiate the elements a bit... add a new flavor that isn't just "huge and floaty".

  14.  
    Posted By: BBSpeed26

    coasterguy -

    First, eh... a little, but not really.

    Second, look at the dates - August 17th was when baadrix first posted a picture of the "immel-hill". You didn't evenstartyour Hurricane thread (back when it was an inversionless, family standup) until September 6th. Your color scheme is even similar to his. So who is copying whom? Plus, your "drop" on Hurricane is almost identical (even going in the right direction!!!) to the rolling dive on the tophat of my team's 3 Blind Mice entrySanctus. The rolling dive that I designed months ago. You copycat. :P

    I'm being more than a little sarcastic. Creating a track element and posting it or an image of it on NLE doesn't make it uniquely "yours". You don't get "dibs", and you shouldn't expect people tonotbuild similar elements - especially if it's a good idea. You (and several others here) would do well to stop worrying if someone else's track looks like yours, and focus more on making sure that your track is as good as it can be. Even if you want to treat it as a competition - try to be better, no one cares if you're first. If two similar tracks get released back-to-back and one of them totally kicks the other one's tail, guess which one people remember. Make sure that's your track.


    ok I was JOKING and BB doesn't like jokes does he? but actually I have been playing with the Idea of Hurricane for a LONG time and I really don't care if they are similar but no one should and Sanctus was great I didn't mean to STEAL anything or even replicate the same style of element so if you would like me to take out that element, I WILL!
    ANYWAY
    back to the topic!
    the ride looks really good so far!
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      CommentAuthorBBSpeed26
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2011 edited
     

    In case you missed it, allow me to highlight the parts of my post that I hoped you'd pick up on the most:

    I'm being more than a little sarcastic. Creating a track element and posting it or an image of it on NLE doesn't make it uniquely "yours". You don't get "dibs", and you shouldn't expect people to not build similar elements - especially if it's a good idea.

    I wasn't accusing you of theft. It's a zero-G rolling dive, it's not that unique of an idea. Hell, I almost certainly have a draft track lying around here from 10 years ago with one in it. You were what, like 3 years old then? (BOOM NOLIMITS HIPSTER BURN HAHA I CAN BE FUNNY TOO)

    I was being sarcastic and ridiculous to highlight that the frequent accusations (even if they're... "jokes"...) of idea-stealing that get thrown around the Engineer's Warehouse forum ("OMG! That's just like my track HerpDerpBerp! You didn't even change the colors!!") are ridiculous. I wouldn't mind at all if they stopped.

    And now back to your regularly scheduled Mysteryland programming.

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      CommentAuthorOinzCEO17
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2011
     
    I like it so far, probably in time, this concept can be labeled realistic instead of fantasy.
    I mean, these elements aren't impossible to make, if supports get creative enough to hold it. Like, doing something different wont make it so the cars can't go on the track. So I like it.

    On another note, not entirely off topic though, is Dragon Age going to be completed? I liked that ride
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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2011
     
    ^I know, Dragon Age seems to take forever to be completed, and I know, too, that I should finish it finally (!), but at the moment I'm not in the right mood to add more flanges - if you know what I mean ...
    BUT someday it WILL be finished - you can be sure!!

    Thank you for all your critizism so far! :D :D :D
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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2011 edited
     
    Sorry for the double-post, but here's a new update (according to what BBSpeed said) ;) - I exaggerated the opposite-rotating Dive Loop and added a high-speed turn and a crazy "Zero-G-a-bit-more-than-half-and-then-back-again-roll".
    If something can be improved in your opinion, or if you need more angles, please tell me ...

    EDIT: pictures removed, please check the latest update
    • CommentAuthorbigjoe97
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2011
     
    How many lats do you get on the weird zero-g?
  15.  
    Ooooh, I love that roll. From the other angles it looks a bit weird, but from the top it looks like pure awesome. It looks particularly well designed...very nice.
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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2011
     
    @bigjoe - In the front row (right seat) you'll experience 0.5 lats (I think it's okay, even for such a smooth coaster), but in the 4th or the 5th car there are barely none.
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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2011 edited
     
    Sorry for doublepost, but I need your opinion on what I should make as the next element.
    Maybe the opposite-rotating Immelmann (ORI) or a Half Cuban Eight?
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      CommentAuthorOinzCEO17
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2011
     
    Cuban Eight!
    • CommentAuthorShubinine
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2011
     
    Whatever a Cuban Eight is, do that.
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      CommentAuthorIntaLSM
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2011
     
    It's on Mauer Sohne's G-Force at Drayton Manor:

    http://rcdb.com/2926.htm?p=12814

    I know, I don't see the 8 formatioin either. :/
    • CommentAuthorbiZaRo
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2011
     
    ^
    http://www.rcdb.com/2926.htm?p=12814

    That would be a cuban eight.


    Looks great so far, baadrix!
    • CommentAuthorShubinine
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2011
     
    Holy crap it looks good. Probably would be even better on B&M