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      CommentAuthorL Bosch
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2013 edited
     
    As FVD++ has come to a point where the most important features are already included (but some more will definitely come), I decided to make this thread so that everyone who has problems with the tool has a place to ask.

    Posted by altlenny in the FVD++ threadI feel that it would be time to have some tutorials popping up for FVD! I'd really love to see some creative ideas (google docs, pdf and example .fvd's would be perfect) and here are some topics that would be rather handy to have tutorials to:

    - getting started (maybe for total newcomers and for newton2 experienced people)
    - basic elements (station, lift, brakes, drops, airtime hills, turns)
    - advanced elements (inverting elements, ampersands, overbanks, top hats)
    - utilizing roll speed
    - utilizing geometric sections
    - a look at euler vs quaternion orientation
    - a look at time vs distance based design


    In the first post (this one), all helping resources that are available will be collected whereas the rest of the thread is the place for new questions.





    Official documentation

    On v0.6 beta
    On v0.5 beta
    On v0.31 beta



    Videos

    Channels:
    FVD++ Tutorials by me

    Single Tutorials:
    FVD++ Basics - Tutorial by Ajax_Coasters

    My tutorials:
    FVD++ Tutorial 0: Introduction, Brief History of Force Vector Design
    FVD++ Tutorial 1: Introduction to the User Interface
    FVD++ Tutorial 2: Section Types, Transition Graphs Part 1
    FVD++ Tutorial 3: Transition Graphs Part 2: Resulting Graphs + Markers
    FVD++ Tutorial 4: Exporting
    FVD++ Basic Elements 1: Station, Curves, Lifthill, Looping, Immelmann
    FVD++ Advanced Features 1: Function Argument, Orientation
    FVD++ Advanced Element 1: 500° Roll Immelmann
    FVD++ Advanced Element 2: Shambhala's First Drop
    FVD++ Basic Element 2: Airtime Hills
    ...and a lot more on my channel.



    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2013
     
    Can we ask about how to build, let's say, maybe corkscrews??? ;)
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      CommentAuthorllamaboy
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2013
     
    The only thing Im a little confused about is how to get the roll perfectly back to zero.
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      CommentAuthorL Bosch
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2013
     
    1. Make sure the roll change rate is zero by adjusting the transition settings.

    2. As the roll values on the track are the integrals over the roll change function, you need to make the transitions longer in order to make the areas beneath them larger. Take a look at my example files "unroll" (the areas compensate each other) and the "heartline roll" (the area is big enough to make 360° roll).
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      CommentAuthoraltlenny
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2013
     
    Posted By: llamaboyThe only thing Im a little confused about is how to get the roll perfectly back to zero.

    There is no such thing as perfect zero. Any value between -0.03° and 0.03° is sufficient enough. The export to NoLimits uses radian units ( 1° in radian is ~0,0174532925, therefore 0.03° is ~0.000523598776 which will result in perfect 0° in NL editor). Most of the time you are able to roll back to something between -0.01° and 0.01° (by minor timewarping and/or slight changes of transition length). I'm still not a fan to increase the precision in every value of FVD by 1 although it might happen.

    Trivia: During the Olympic Summer Games 1972, all swimming competitions had time measurements with 3 decimal places. The swimming pool however was no perfect rectangle resulting in the different lanes having different lengths (about 1cm between lane 1 and 8) resulting in unfair competition because the precision of the time measurement was TOO high (a swimmer needs more than 0.01 seconds to surpass the additional 2 cm he needs). Just an example why adding precision doesn't solve all problems in live :)

    Greetings, Lenny
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      CommentAuthorL Bosch
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2013
     
    Posted By: altlennyAny value between -0.03° and 0.03° is sufficient enough. The export to NoLimits uses radian units ( 1° in radian is ~0,0174532925, therefore 0.03° is ~0.000523598776 which will result in perfect 0° in NL editor)

    So up to which roll value in FVD++ NoLimits still sets the vertex to 0°? Is it 0.49° or a different value due to the radian to degrees conversion?
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      CommentAuthorJellybeans
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2013
     
    I know much about Newton 2 but is it worth it to give up newton 2 to use FVD++?
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      CommentAuthorL Bosch
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2013 edited
     
    Yes. Once figured out FVD++ is much more powerful.
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      CommentAuthorJellybeans
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2013
     
    Is it difficult to learn, like is it anything like newton where i'll somewhat know what i'm doing?
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      CommentAuthorL Bosch
    • CommentTimeJan 27th 2013
     
    Curved Sections are the same, Normal and Leteral Forces are also treated the same way, just as an example. Once the documentation is out getting into it shouldn't be a problem.
  1.  
    Posted By: L Bosch[...]Normal and Leteral Forces are also treated the same way[...]

    In a hurry, I just read lethal, which should describe this matter way more correct anyways... ;)
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      CommentAuthorL Bosch
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2013
     
    I'm proud to announce that the official documentation is now available to download:

    FVD++ v0.31 Documentation


    Download the PDF file
  2.  
    How do you figure out the friction?
  3.  

    I think it's been posted before, but look for your desired friction value in Newton2. Then, multiply that by 9.81 (That's 1G in m/s^2).

    • CommentAuthorDanKruga
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2013
     
    ... for us Mac users that did not get a chance to work with Newton, can someone help us out. If your stuck inside from the snow storm on the east coast (like myself) it might be a good time passing "feel good by helping others" project...
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      CommentAuthorImagine
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2013
     
    So I'm not understanding this program at all (even with the documentation). Do I have to re-learn calculus to be able to use it? I think I'm going to wait until someone makes tutorials.
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      CommentAuthoraltlenny
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2013
     
    Posted By: ImagineDo I have to re-learn calculus to be able to use it?

    This method of building coasters is quite mathematical, you should have some basic understanding of calculus (knowing what a dervative is and what it does) and analytic geometry (not feeling to uncomfortable in a 3 dimensional space, knowing what the 6 coordinates x, y, z and roll, pitch, yaw mean). I really need more time such that I can write a beginners tutorial AND continue working on the next version.

    Greetings, Lenny
    • CommentAuthorDanKruga
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2013
     
    work on the next version Lenny. I finally downloaded the working Mac version last weekend and I can already see much improvement in my work.

    Imagine, take the time to learn small projects. Make a lift hill. Start with a straight section, then add a curved piece. a straight section and then another curved peice. to understand how to work each section read the documentation AS you do it.

    Then, make a first drop from a B&M Hyper. Do a force section that goes down to -0.03 over as many seconds as it takes for it to get to the angle you want, then a .7 section to a 3.5g and then a pull out.

    Small projects with a goal will help you understand the program. I myself am only starting to play with geometric sections, trying to make a B&M Floorless drop.
    • CommentAuthorDanKruga
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2013
     
    Sorry for the Double Post:

    Okay, so far I have successfully made the first half of a B&M floorless roller coaster. For some reason I can not create a standard helix for the life of me! Can someone please post a visual of how you were making a helix in FVD++?

    Thanks!
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      CommentAuthorL Bosch
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2013
     
    • CommentAuthordaoage
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2013
     
    is there a german language documentation? würde mir mehr helfen ;)
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      CommentAuthorL Bosch
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2013
     
    I'm sorry, there's only the english one. The language selection has a fairly good reason and I'm lacking time to write another one in german, to be honest.
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2013
     
    How might I go about making an Arrow type vertical loop? Do I use geometric sections or what?
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      CommentAuthoraltlenny
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2013
     
    Geometrics are bad at making vertical loops, you should go with a force section. Aren't arrow loops those kinds that have lats in them?
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2013
     
    Should I use several force sections? If not, what are the numbers needed for the one?
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      CommentAuthoraltlenny
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2013
     
    Get to around 30° pitch with high positive g's (like 3.5-3.9) and 0° roll, append a quartic symmetric function for normal forces going down to about 0.3-0.5g's and having low tension (meaning the part with low g's gets smaller. Extend this force transition until you end up with -30° pitch, end the loop with constant positive g's. After that you can build in the roll transition resulting the Z shape of the loop. Begin the quartic symmetric roll transition when pitch is at around 0° with max value of around 5°/s roll and high tension values (such that you have a looong rolling transition).

    Just a rough sketch.

    Greetings, Lenny
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2013
     
    Oh. Um, okay. Thanks.
    •  
      CommentAuthoraltlenny
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2013 edited
     
    Here's the loop I just explained, hope the image helps a bit. Make sure that your track flexion (ctrl 6) is more or less constant on the loop's topmost part, that the loop is NOT lopsided (eg the tightest radius has to be exactly on the topmost point).



    Greetings, Lenny
  4.  
    I need some help with a B&M inverted cobra roll. One like silver bullet.

    EDIT: I've been able to achieve this, but it still doesn't look quite right.
    • CommentAuthorC-A_99
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2013
     
    ^ "it doesn't look quite right" seems to be partially due to the banking at each end of the cobra roll, like it doesn't bank upwards high enough. That and the exit is turning too far out from the entrance IMO. Of course, I'm not sure exactly what kind of adjustments you could make to alleviate those issues, but if you fiddle around with it enough, you'll probably get something better.

    Posted By: altlennyHere's the loop I just explained, hope the image helps a bit. Make sure that your track flexion (ctrl 6) is more or less constant on the loop's topmost part, that the loop is NOT lopsided (eg the tightest radius has to be exactly on the topmost point).

    Image snipped from quote

    Greetings, Lenny


    According to this, I've done my loops all completely wrong. (Perhaps due to their asymmetry from how I made them?) One of them has a constant rate of roll change throughout the loop. Oh well, will have to see what people think once the track is posted. (I'll post the source files later in another thread but only after the track is released.) Personally, I think the loops I have ride just fine though, albeit not built very traditionally at all.

    I would've thought that geometrics would be good for Arrow loops due to their symmetry (I thought an entire Arrow track would work best as geometrics), though I haven't tried said loop myself. Perhaps I should try out an Arrow corkscrew as my next project.
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      CommentAuthorL Bosch
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2013 edited
     
    I thought it might be helpful to post this, it'll be included in the FVD++ Documentation 0.5 as well:

    • CommentAuthorDanKruga
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2013
     
    I dont see a difference between Sinusoidal and Cubic.... Is there?
    •  
      CommentAuthoraltlenny
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2013 edited
     
    ^if you derive both, the sinusoidal would end up with another sinusoidal and the cubic would end up with a parabola. The difference is minimal though.
    •  
      CommentAuthorL Bosch
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2013 edited
     


    The difference can only be seen in the second derivative - the roll acceleration - where the cubic has a changing slope on the endings and sinusoidal doesn't.
    • CommentAuthorDanKruga
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2013
     
    I have to say that I think the standard friction of 0.27 is wrong... can someone assist on that concern?!
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      CommentAuthorrcrider4
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2013
     
    The friction value will be different for every coaster type, and then different even then based on the train length. There is no way for him to set a friction value that will always work for everything. You just have to expirement to find a good value.
  5.  
    I made a video of the basics of the basics...

    Most of you probably already know this stuff... Oh well.
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      CommentAuthoraltlenny
    • CommentTimeMar 24th 2013
     
    Posted By: DanKrugaI have to say that I think the standard friction of 0.27 is wrong... can someone assist on that concern?!

    The heartline height of 1.1 meters is wrong too for most coaster types. Your argument is invalid.

    Posted By: Ajax_CoastersI made a video of the basics of the basics...

    I appreciate every effort to make the tool more accessible! If you plan on doing more videos please keep in mind that the UI got a major overhaul in the new version.

    Greetings, Lenny
    • CommentAuthorMatt
    • CommentTimeMar 26th 2013 edited
     
    Useful thread so far, but I'd love to see more tutorial videos. I am having a heck of a time figuring out how to roll out of turns into a straight section of track - not a true straight section in FVD, but a length of track that isn't turning but has positive or negative normal forces. Hope that makes sense. Here is an image of my trouble spot.

     photo fvdquestion.png

    What if I want to go on to make a straight hill after that track section?
  6.  
    You have to return to 0 degrees per second for that, then from there use some trial and error. Either you create another normal roll sub-zone, or use a quartic transition (symmetric function).
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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeMar 26th 2013
     
    In addition, don't forget that you can adjust the tension and the center of the roll function. I also might add that it's always very helpful (at least for me) if you add a new section in which you don't change any values, and then tweak the section you're actually working on until you get a banking of 0° at a roll speed of 0° per second.
    • CommentAuthorDanKruga
    • CommentTimeMar 26th 2013
     
    I agree with Baadrix, I have been throwing a straight "dummy" section on the end and then playing around with Overshoot final value, or opposite direction first Quartic rolls!
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      CommentAuthorXpress
    • CommentTimeMar 26th 2013 edited
     
    Been playing with this for a couple of hours now...

    All I see is Newton2, just a bit re-arranged...

    Just pointing it out.

    Safe to assume?
  7.  
    ^Yeah basically, besides the roll per second function.
    • CommentAuthorDanKruga
    • CommentTimeMar 27th 2013
     
    and that a mac user can now play around with it!
    •  
      CommentAuthorBBSpeed26
    • CommentTimeMar 27th 2013
     

    All I see is Newton2, just a bit rearranged

    And about 100x more capable.

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      CommentAuthorXpress
    • CommentTimeMar 27th 2013
     
    Perhaps, but aside from some small things here and there, what can this make better than what Newton2 can make? That is what I am curious about.
    •  
      CommentAuthorL Bosch
    • CommentTimeMar 27th 2013 edited
     
    Have you ever tried to use Geometric sections? Distance as the function argument? Take a look in the documentation to see what features the program has.
  8.  
    Posted By: XpressPerhaps, but aside from some small things here and there, what can this makebetterthan what Newton2 can make? That is what I am curious about.

    Beside the other features, roll per second is kind-of key here. Not only that, but you can blend it with any segment type (not just force zones) so you now have a lot more power to make really creative elements.

    But roll per second is huge because it keeps that first derivative lined up and can prevent a lot of the Newton-y feel. You can just continue the roll off of anything seamlessly through multiple elements without that Newton pause.

    Among other things...
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      CommentAuthorRNB
    • CommentTimeMar 27th 2013
     
    Also the abilty to make for instance a drop that starts with a perfect curve (distance as function argument) into a parabola (time as function argument) into a force zone makes it really powerful. FVD allows you to combine geometric and force sections which makes up for some awesome shaped elements. This is also really nice for woodies :). Overall, much more powerful than N2