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    • CommentAuthorJaynen
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2013 edited
    Is it possible for me to get un banned from the nolimits-exchange site? I downloaded a bunch of coasters and rode them, then found out I had to rate them. So I rated them but my guess is that my rating wasnt good enough cuz it says I am banned cuz I tried to bypass the rating requirement. What is everyones beef with rating coasters. Cant we just ride and rate if we want to. The community is always struggling, so I dont see the point in making it struggle more. Most of the time ratings just come out as people saying what they dont like about the coaster anyways. Which I rather have a simple "nice ride" vs. " you did this wrong, you did this wrong, and you should change this".

    I apologize for the rant but I just had to.
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2013
    I'm terrible at rating coasters so I just don't bother downloading them. I would like to be able to download peoples rides and just enjoy them though so I do get what you mean with that aspect. On the other hand though the rate and download ratio is there for a reason, people would get lots of downloads but no ratings or very few if the system wasn't in place. I can't see it ever changing.
    All I got out of this is you saying you want your ban repealed, and then proceeding to rant about the thing you got banned for in the first place. The rating system encourages feedback to the creator. If you look at coastercrazy's downloads, very few of the tracks receive rates, and when they do it is usually not more than one or two. While rating may be bothersome to some, it does encourage bettering of that creator. And really, how you rate should revolve around the effort put forth, if the person who made the track put alot of time into it, it's just common courtesy to take some time to rate their ride. If its a shotty coaster per say, take a few minutes and write a quick rate on how to improve. 300 characters really is not that much. I typically only download a track if I know I will have some time to write at least a decent rate, but like I said, I only particularly rate tracks that I feel deserve to be rated, occasionally I will rate a beginner track just to give some feedback though.
    People like to have rates. And in order to keep the growth of the members and community itself, we have requirements for people to rate the rides they download. In my eyes, the people who made that ride took long hours to do so, and would love for someone to take five minutes and rate their work. And I think if one gets in the habit of rating every ride they download, they'll find that it isn't much of a hassle. I also believe that if we did not have such a rule, if people could just rate when they wanted to, no one would do so. But by requiring members to rate, we are able to improve and join together as a community.

    Posted By: JaynenWhich I rather have a simple "nice ride" vs. " you did this wrong, you did this wrong, and you should change this".

    But isn't that how we learn? You can't improve if you don't know what to improve.

    Posted By: JaynenWhat is everyones beef with rating coasters.

    The beef is that people work hard on their rides and upload them so people can experience them. And they want to hear praise, praise makes people feel good, and humans naturally like feeling good. And if no one ever commented on their rides, what would be the point of uploading them in the first place? People in the NL community have the urge to improve themselves, and if the highest rated ride wasn't rated at all, there would be no competition, no need to improve, and no need to upload rides.
    I do have to agree with Jaynen to some extent. Getting ratings is nice, but the problem with the rate-to-download system is that you get "more" rates but less "quality" rates, as new kids are trying to put in their ratings and things get really skewed. For me, I'd almost rather not have a forced rating system and let the more experienced members rate to push tracks to the top.

    It'd help with the "Concerned with ratings" topic as well. Less to clean up, but still the necessary community interaction.

    I don't see it changing though, so just rate. I do agree with djd though... a lot of the time I don't download tracks simply because I don't want to rate them. It may look lazy, but I usually don't have time in my day to spend on rates so I just don't download at all. Maybe a looser or abandoned rule could help this.
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2013
    Maybe what you could do is cut the character limit in half and make it around 150. Then you'd still have to leave a rate, but you can say all you need to say even if it isn't that long.
    I actually kinda like the idea that there is a group of players who actually rate the ride through the forums or something, and everyone else can download and leave comments if they please. That way the crap ratings wont be there, and the comments people get will be helpful and thought out. I know that there are a few people that download who give good advice.
    I'd be in favor of mandatory ratings, with the current minimum. That way no one slides at first then rushes through 10 to keep downloading.
    • CommentAuthorC-A_99
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2013 edited
    I'm more on the not-required ratings side, which would prevent people who don't know how to rate from doing so. Then again, I always provide alternate download links for my tracks anyways (because I value the availability of the track over making people rate it or otherwise having the download count against them on the site's download system, but that's a personal choice), so it's more of a track creator's choice on whether they want to force ratings. (Which, in turn, is probably the best way to do it.)

    It's a tricky dilemma here. On one side, you have the n00b that wants to download Thunderhead Falls or Orbital or whatever, and we need to encourage said n00bs to download these tracks so they can be shared and learned from. On the other hand, track builders do need ratings, but that does put the burden on the n00b to rate before they may know how to properly. Perhaps we should give a set number of "free" downloads to new members before counting downloads against them, I don't know.

    Perhaps it's just me; I'm of the opinion of making available things that were meant to be shared; I'm even in favor of not having to log in to access and download from the exchange, but that does put undue stress on the webhost and complicate things. (i.e. Users not logged in may need to be advertised to in order to make up the cost of providing downloads.) I've had my days where I could only learn by downloading tracks (unregistered at Coasters2k when it was around) and reading others' posts and ratings to get into the game of things, so perhaps I'm a bit biased towards being n00b friendly here.
    Maybe there could be an option when uploading that the "uploader/creator" has the option to set whether ratings are required or not for said track. Rather than have an all around option, the said user can have the power to choose whether or not the ratings are required, and the required character length if ratings are required. Boom, everyone's happy?
    The problem isn't necessarily the text the new guy puts out because that's up to the discretion of the creator to actually utilize said text. It's more about the numbers that are inflated and bad. Just look at the All Time rankings that occasionally get flooded with really average rides. (And I can think of two up there at the moment that are pretty "average" but garner 10's from the newer people that haven't seen "everything".)

    I mean, it's not necessarily because raters don't know how to rate, but it's because of context. Newer people will always naturally rate higher because in their scope of "experienced NL creations", one ride may be that "10" because it's literally the best they've seen in their lifetime. But for the people that have been here for ages (Real, DC, etc), rides that get a 10 have to be better than any other ride in the past 13 years. Considering NL-E really took off in the beginning of 2010 and there's already 4200 rides in 2 1/2 years, that's a LOT of rides. And these aren't even the rides from the "heyday" period of 2006, where consistently quality rides were pumped out weekly with thousands of members. To them, a 10 has to beat all of these.

    So unless we get rid of "required rating" or have some sort of rating bias on upvote karma from a specific member (idea??), ratings will be here in quantity and not quality. For me, despite usually aiming for good ratings: ratings don't mean to me much on this site. There are rides that are usually bloated with high rates and some that get honest rates. It's such a mixed bag and will continue to stay that way unless we want change.

    Which is fine by me, but I can't say that I wouldn't prefer more accurate numbers in the future to really classify rides.

    The forum isn't even integrated into the site yet, so I doubt any of these changes would come about anyway.
    Maybe just have a comment system? Instead of numbers just a simple Like or dislike button? Having comments would still let the creator receive feedback without people feeling forced to say something 300 characters long.
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2013
    one word: lazy. just rate.
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2013
    ^That's three words and two periods.
    • CommentAuthorJaynen
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2013
    Thanks for the replies. Way better variety of opinions than I thought I would get.
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2013 edited

    Forcing real, multi-sentence ratings is one of the ways this site distinguishes itself from other, more open exchanges. It's not perfect, but it's worked reasonably well for as long as the site's existed, and it worked pretty well for past sites (CoasterSims springs to mind) as well. For every person who lazily complains about having to rate, there are 10 more people who saw a rate on one of their uploads and was happy to have received feedback on something that they worked hard on - feedback that they otherwise probably wouldn't have received. Even with a system this "strict", you still get people joining the forums just to ask why their tracks don't get more ratings. I'll take that tradeoff any day.

    It's a pretty safe bet that rules aren't going to change anytime soon. If someone wants to make their track available without forcing ratings, they are welcome and encouraged to provide a separate download link in the description, or a link to youtube video. Otherwise, a download is going to count towards your rate ratio, and there's no way around it that doesn't result in a ban.

    Regarding your account - I can't unban exchange accounts (you would have to take that up with Mathew). If you were to create another Exchange account, I wouldn't stop you... but you can expect to get an IP ban if you try to bypass the rating requirements again.

    Finally, just wanted to comment on part of your first post:

    The community is always struggling, so I dont see the point in making it struggle more.

    We must have very different definitions of the word "struggle". I've see more frequent, more intelligent posts here in the last year or so than I've seen in years. Tracks are being released that are higher quality than anything I could have expected 5-6 years ago. Several forum members are developing totally game changing track design tools and oh yea, NL2 is getting closer to release. Flaming and trolling in the forums is incredibly rare, collaborations are now commonplace, and there are whole threads dedicated to answering questions and showing off new work for feedback. And by and large - those questions get answered, and that feedback gets provided

    To me, that's a thriving, successful community if I've ever seen one, even if the active userbase is a "only" a hundred or so people instead of a few thousand.

    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2013
    I love the rating system. Sure, there are lots of people that try to avoid it, and it means a little extra work for the moderators. But, when I've worked hard on a track, there is nothing greater than seeing people appreciate my skills, and giving me praise and constructive criticism to work on and improve my next track.
    • CommentAuthorlujach92
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2013
    Maybe it would help to avoid the overrating by unexperienced users to create a sticky thread with (maybe three) "example-ratings" on free donwnlodable coasters (A very crappy one, an average one an a really good one) with a detailed description on how the rating for this coaster was created, as reverence for owen ratings.
      CommentAuthorL Bosch
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2013
    Do you really think the forum is known to everyone who submitted these ratings? I don't think so.
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2013
    Posted By: L BoschDo you really think the forum is known to everyone who submitted these ratings? I don't think so.

    Then make this as a news or something like this on the main site.
    • CommentTimeMar 11th 2013 edited

    Create a sticky thread with the rate guidelines


    Create a news article

    First, let me say no.

    Second, let me say no in gloriously explicit detail. You've caught me before my coffee's kicked in, so buckle up, this is going to be fun:

    When you rate a coaster now, this is what you are shown. I've highlighted the important part:

    So, when you rate a coaster, there is a clickable link to the news article called The NoLimits Exchange Rating Guide, and an explicit warning about trying to get around the character limit.

    What on earth else can we honestly do to make it more obvious? Scrolling marquee text in a rainbow font in the background of the rating box window? No, that's pointless and obnoxious. It's already about as obvious and prominently placed as it could possibly be. All of the rules are spelled out, all of the tools are there, and all of the consequences for not playing ball them are spelled out, right there.

    People not seeing this is not why people don't rate well, and "not knowing better" isn't why they try to bypass the rate requirements. People don't rate well because they're lazy. People try to bypass the rate requirements because they're lazy. Rating isn't supposed to always (ever?) be fun. It's supposed to be a give and take between the track author and the track riders. It's supposed to force real commentary, real thought, and real criticism out of the users, and it works. If you can't spend barely more than two tweets worth of effort on a track that took someone else hours, days, weeks, months to create, then you are not welcome to use this site. Those are the rules here.

    I'm not going to go up to bat for people who get caught leaving crappy rates when there is a stickied thread with nearly 3000 comments where this site's users - not mods - have spent an incredible amount of time policing the Exchange and reporting crap rates. You, the NLE member, does this because you care about the quality of the rates that you get, and you care about the quality of the rates that other people get. You care that ratings are fair and well explained. You care if people try to bypass the limits, or if you get a rate that's totally gibberish.

    So don't try and tell me that we're not making the rating requirements obvious enough, or that the rules are unfair. It's all there, it's all spelled out, and there are literally thousands of comments of people supporting the system and its requirements in practice. The site is not going to change its rules to accommodate a handful of people whose primary unifying characteristic can be boiled down to "sometimes I think it's annoying that I have to give other people their well-earned feedback."

    /rant off

    • CommentTimeMar 11th 2013
    *rousing applause*
    all hail bbspeed
    • CommentAuthorlujach92
    • CommentTimeMar 11th 2013
    Posted By: BBSpeed26What on earth else can we honestly do to make it more obvious?
    Examples. I just talked about overrates, not these 10-10-10 ratings. Sure there are some people that just don't want to write a decent rating.

    Posted By: BBSpeed26If you can't spend barely more than two tweets worth of effort on a track that took someone else hours, days, weeks, months to create,then you are not welcome to use this site. Those are the rules here. (...) The site is not going to change its rules to accommodate a handful of people whose primary unifying characteristic can be boiled down to "sometimes I think it's annoying that I have to give other people their well-earned feedback."

    ^I totally agree with you.
    • CommentAuthorMikey714
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2014
    How can I get back into nolimit exchange I sent I email already is that all I can do is wait
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2014 edited
    ^ Just wait, if they let you back your lucky if not then sorry that accounts gone! If you create a new one and spam you will probably get an IP ban as mentioned by BB a few posts back...either way you get no sympathy from me, no-one who does spam, c+p or just totally random ratings will get sympathy from me and many other creators.
    • CommentAuthorspinba11
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2014
    Ive had one of my rates removed on a coaster because it was overrated, it wasn't a C+P rate or random words, do i need to be worried about getting banned?
    It's usually 3 strikes and you're out. Should we delete another two of your rates, you will most likely be banned. Time to clean up your act, we don't like repeat offenders.

    The fact you are concerned and have posted here shows me that you aren't that kind of person, though, so you may be OK.