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      CommentAuthorzrowny
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2013 edited
     
    Originally posted this on the idea thread, but I figured it would be better to give it it's own thread:

    Been lurking these forums for a long time (few years?), figured I should actually post here at some point.

    I've seen a few flight-themed coasters, but I haven't seen any that have been heavily themed to an airport
    (X-Flight is the closest to this, but it's fairly shitty theming IMO). So, here's my basic idea so far:

    As you can see, I don't have any of the actual ride itself planned out yet, since I'm still debating whether to make
    this a more family-type ride with gentle hills and curves and whatnot, or to make it intense (fighter-plane themed?).

    The basic idea is that you'll queue up out/inside an airplane hangar (queue path in blue, exit path in purple, ride path in green).
    Then, your "plane" exits the hanger and turns 180 onto the runway. Takeoff (launch), and then into the ride.
    After the ride, you "land" back on the runway into brakes, turn off the runway and back into the hangar.

    Thoughts?
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2013
     
    You could use the Intamin Impulse to have a sort of a family Vekoma launcher, make it all two-tube track, and make a 3ds spine?
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      CommentAuthorzrowny
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2013
     
    Posted By: JAKoolYou could use the Intamin Impulse to have a sort of a family Vekoma launcher, make it all two-tube track, and make a 3ds spine?

    I actually got some of my inspiration for this from Freedom Flyer (recently opened at Fun Spot). As opposed to most of the family hang-and-bangs, it's actually really smooth, and with no OTSR, and no track below you, it really feels like you are flying. I want to kind of replicate that, so I suppose a 3DS spine would be the best option for the track.
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      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2013
     
    I like the idea, I think the best option for the launch are tires, because you cant use a cable launch since it's inverted.
    And Lim's aren't really Vekoma.
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      CommentAuthorKingRCT3
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2013
     
    You can use LSM, Vekoma did it with Battlestar Galactica. =)
    Wish you luck!
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      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2013
     
    Jep, you're right, didn't think about that one. :P
    •  
      CommentAuthorzrowny
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2013 edited
     
    Although using L[S/I]Ms wouldn't be unreasonable, I think I'm going to go with a tire launch. I suppose I will be emulating a Vekoma family inverted, and since they use a tire-driven lift, I feel like they would use the same for a launched version. So now that I've pretty much decided what type of coaster I'm going to make, I'm starting work on building a basic layout in FVD++. Going to post some pictures once I get some stuff done.

    EDIT: How does the name "FreeFlight" sound?
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      CommentAuthorzrowny
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2013 edited
     
    As promised, pictures! Again, keep in mind that this is just getting the basics of my layout planned out.

    What I have so far:


    A look at the "takeoff" turn:


    An overhead view of the turn at the end of my layout so far. I've switched to a geometric section for the banking change, to sort of emulate the way turns are more-so done in real life with planes, where the plane is banked (roll + lats) and then turned by pulling up slightly (pos. g's).


    You can see this better at this angle. I'm not positive if I plan to keep this, so I'd like some feedback on whether you guys think I should change this or not.


    Geometric:


    Force:

    (Both of these are just the ride section itself, I've cut out the brakes, station, launch)
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      CommentAuthoraltlenny
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2013
     
    Your flat turn looks like it came out of RollercoasterTycoon X. Try to blend the banking into the actual turn to reduce the hangtime laterals which are with |a| > 0.6g quite significant. I'm not saying remove all laterals because they are quite prevalent on family coasters but those are a bit too much. Also, save your work regularly in FVD++.

    Greetings, Lenny
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      CommentAuthorzrowny
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2013
     
    I definitely want to keep some significant lats in there (so it feels like an airplane, although I agree that .6 for about a full second may be too much.

    Now how to transition smoothly from a geometric-based yaw change to a force-based pos g change...
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      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2013
     
    Do you have ever felt lateral g-forces on a plane while making a turn/the transition to the turn?

    Well I've never felt them.
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      CommentAuthorzrowny
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2013
     
    Maybe, maybe not, but I can always "feel" when the plane is banking, even with the windows closed, which I'm assuming is because you do experience some lats. I'm sure they're not 0.6 g's but I'm fairly sure there are some.
  1.  
    I'd ditch the geometric bit. It screams RCT.
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      CommentAuthorzrowny
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2013 edited
     
    Posted By: mightbeawannabegeometric bit


    I've been playing with it for the last hour, and I've switched over to doing it all forced-based. I'm still giving it some lats, but the shaping no longer looks so stupid:



    EDIT: Why the favicon's got to be so similar?
  2.  
    That looks better, but maybe make the transitions a bit shorter.
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      CommentAuthorzrowny
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2013
     
    Posted By: mightbeawannabeThat looks better, but maybe make the transitions a bit shorter.


    1. I'm keeping the transitions fairly long and smooth, since this is meant to be a family coaster.
    2. I'm just creating a basic layout right now. Once I finish it and I'm happy with the elements and pacing, I'll go back and redo it all, paying more attention to shaping and actually putting more effort into what my transitions look like.
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2013
     
    Vekoma inverted family coasters are actually really quite intense. Look at some of their newer models.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzrowny
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2013 edited
     
    I'll put this at the top of my post this time, so people will see it: How does the name "FreeFlight" sound? :P

    Also, does this look good for the 3DS spine? I'll still need to change it for the brakes, station, and launch sections and of course add the mechanisms in there, but until then, does this look good?


    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2013
     
    The spine looks great. I like the name too.
  3.  
    Use Freebird in a music video if you make one
    •  
      CommentAuthorzrowny
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2013 edited
     
    Posted By: JAKoolThe spine looks great. I like the name too.

    Yay thanks! I just wish I could get rid of the sort-of excessive cross ties that Intamin track has. I really really can't wait for NL2, if only for the greater number of track options, and the ability to totally create your own (invisible track + CK-esque 3DS).

    Posted By: A.S.CoastersUse Freebird in a music video if you make one

    lol, maybe. Although when I do make a video, I plan on adding in air traffic control audio (e.g. "Hotel Five Nine Three, proceed onto runway Eight you are clear for takeoff")


    BTW, CK is almost stupidly-inefficient as far as the models it exports. I just spent literally 30 seconds in Blender and I reduced the poly-count by ~40% for the above spine (1648 --> 996). O_o

    EDIT: Would inclining my launch track slightly (in case of a fail) be necessary or even useful when using a tire launch? In real life, couldn't the tires just transport the trains in reverse back to the station? Plus, aren't the tires non-retractable, which would actually prevent the train from rolling back under gravity alone?
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2013
     
    I believe they could go backwards or forwards if you wanted them too. The only coasters with tire launches are ones that could never rollback, so you could use your imagination.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzrowny
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2013 edited
     
    Some more pictures will be coming soon. Haven't done much work on the layout, but I've modeled a good portion of the hangar station building.

    EDIT:

    Station building so far (Textures are not final. I'm going to have to get over my hatred of UV mapping at some point...). Still have to build the entrance/exit to the building, and the actual interior of it (queue line and gates, etc).
  4.  
    I'd probably increase the height of the arched roof. Otherwise it looks great so far.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzrowny
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2013
     
    Posted By: CoolioJoe100I'd probably increase the height of the arched roof


    I've updated the station and its textures quite a lot:



    As you can see, the roof is much better shaped, and has it's own texture (I gave it a bump map just so it would look a little prettier in my quicky renders in Blender. Really wish NoLimits supported bump maps. The doors slide on "tracks" and their side texture has been updated so they look much better (especially where the 3 doors on the left share a side). Additionally, I realized after my first update on the station, I didn't actually model the ceiling of it, so you could see right through the roof and up to the sky (1 sided polys only).

    However, I've come across a problem when putting this in blender. Since NoLimits throws a hissyfit when trying to import 3DS's right from Blender, I have to import/export them through Wings3D, which somehow fixes something that NoLimits doesn't like. In order to give the station multiple textures, I have to make separate objects for each Blender material (so the polys of the roof are one object, the quad that represents the track the doors slide on is another object, and the door sides are all another). Otherwise, only one texture is assigned properly, and everything else is just white. However, somewhere between Wings and NoLimits, I get what looks like the same infamous black face problem that plagues Sketchup exports:



    1) Is there a better method for exporting an object with multiple textures that will avoid this whole issue altogether?
    2) If not, how can I fix this (normals are correctly facing outwards, textures look fine in Wings3D)?
    • CommentAuthorlujach92
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2013 edited
     
    Since I do my own 3ds in Blender too, I know this pain of getting your model work with NL, I hope this will be fixed in NL2. For your method: I'm using the same one. The only difference is that I import my Blender-models in Anim8or (It's laso free), and I didn't got this problem until now, so maybe try to use anim8or. Another thing I do is to export from blender in .obj-format, mainly to not getting confused of which .3ds file is working with Nl and which one not, maybe this also influences the result, but I don't think so.
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      CommentAuthorzrowny
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2013
     
    Posted By: lujach92Since I do my own 3ds in Blender too, I know this pain of getting your model work with NL, I hope this will be fixed in NL2. For your method: I'm using the same one. The only difference is that I import my Blender-models in Anim8or (It's laso free), and I didn't got this problem until now, so maybe try to use anim8or. Another thing I do is to export from blender in .obj-format, mainly to not getting confused of which .3ds file is working with Nl and which one not, maybe this also influences the result, but I don't think so.


    For some reason I got it in my head that Anim8or could only be used with sketchup. Not sure where I got that from, but I'll be sure to try it. Also, I was actually exporting it as an .obj, since blender didn't actually seem to export everything (the objects themselves, not just the textures) with a .3ds.

    Will edit this post with results in a few minutes.
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      CommentAuthorrcrider4
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2013
     
    I guess I'm a little late to this, but no, tire launches do not need to be inclined. Juvelen's launch is not inclined. I hope I'm not bumping this too much, but I went on vacation and kind of fell behind and I'm going through what I missed :)
  5.  

    Yes and the only reason for that is because the tires can (obviously) spin backwards to get the train back in the station if it rolls back.

    •  
      CommentAuthorzrowny
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2013 edited
     
    Posted By: rcrider4I guess I'm a little late to this, but no, tire launches do not need to be inclined. Juvelen's launchis notinclined. I hope I'm not bumping this too much, but I went on vacation and kind of fell behind and I'm going through what I missed :)


    Awesome, thank you! I figured it wouldn't have to be inclined, but wasn't sure if there was a real-life example of this.

    Also, I've been fairly busy recently, but I promise I'll get back to this soon.