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      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2013 edited
     
    A very long time I want to make a good B&M Inverted. I know there are a lot of Inverted coaster right now, but by the time I got finished the others are already uploaded or gone.
    My new coasters will have project names to animals.

    Here is a sketch of the layout I made. The Immelmann/Diveloop and the Cobra Roll are switched for a better course.


    This will be my biggest themed coaster I have ever made. I don't know the exact theme jet, but it will be something with a dark theme. That's why it's called Project Bat.'


    What do you think about the loop?


    Immelmann or a Diveloop like this? With a Immelmann I have to make another flat section just like before the Cobra roll.
    And with the Diveloop the exit is a bit far away from the sketch I made.



    Let me know what you think. I have to start over anyway, because of the wrong friction in newton....
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      CommentAuthorUncleArly
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2013
     
    I really like the cobra threading the lift. A little spin on the usually vertical loop threading it.
  1.  
    ^ Seconded, I love he cobra roll, although the shaping is a little off, something not surprising if you are using Newton. I don't like the dive loop because the loop part is too circular and the roll ends too early, it should be at no more than 135 at the crest, preferably closer to 90.
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2013
     
    The loop looks too much like a 0. Everything else I love.
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      CommentAuthorAJClarke0912
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2013 edited
     
    Not sure how I feel about your current progress. I liked your drawing layout better with the Immelmann then cobra roll. I think that the way that you have it right now is forcing you to stretch out the bridge of your cobra roll and is making it forceless. But I'm just judging this from pictures. I also think that the loop > Immelmann > cobra roll is a more interesting pattern with 2 reversals of direction. You said you would have to make a "flat section" if you did the original layout plot, but I see that as a good thing versus a bad thing. You could do something cool like Kumba's flat section. (Watch POVs of it, it's a fun section to ride.)

    Dive loop looks fun but a bit un-B&M. Not sure though cause again I'm looking at pictures, but I think your original layout was better. It's up to you though.
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      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2013 edited
     
    I started again from the loop, because the old one looks to round.
    Does this one looks better? I still got the idea it looks to much like a egg...


    Posted By: AJClarke0912I liked your drawing layout better with the Immelmann then cobra roll. I think that the way that you have it right now is forcing you to stretch out the bridge of your cobra roll and is making it forceless. But I'm just judging this from pictures. I also think that the loop > Immelmann > cobra roll is a more interesting pattern with 2 reversals of direction.


    I actually agree with you, the two reasons I changed it was because I really like the interaction with the cobra and the lift that way. And because I didn't came out with the cobra roll on the original plan.


    Posted By: AJClarke0912You said you would have to make a "flat section" if you did the original layout plot, but I see that as a good thing versus a bad thing. You could do something cool like Kumba's flat section.


    Actually I did that to a earlier failed layout. I like it, indeed.
    The plan for now is to make after the Loop a normal B&M Dive Loop, so I got more space to come out with the Cobra Roll and make a flat section like AJ said.
    • CommentAuthorTheBeatles
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2013 edited
     
    Your new loop is even more misshapen the your old one. I'd say it should be just a little more round than your first version.
    • CommentAuthorbigjoe97
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2013
     
    The original loop seemed fine to me....
  2.  
    Yeah I thought your old one looked mostly fine from what I could tell.
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2013
     
    Take the first one and sort of squish the top a tiny bit.
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      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2013 edited
     


    The inverted Kumba part.
    •  
      CommentAuthorUncleArly
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2013
     
    That kumba flat section looks great!
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2013
     
    But I miss the lift/Cobra interaction. Oh well, looks good anyways!
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      CommentAuthorLJELLIS12
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2013
     
    I love the flat section actually..
  3.  
    Oh I thought you were going to do an Immelmann like your drawing. This looks interesting but I dunno if it's going to ride well. I was thinking you were going to do loop then Immelmann, which would leave you with a flat section with a slight curve (perfect for the Kumba flat section and Raptor-esque wait for the cobra roll) and then do the cobra roll.

    This could work too but the pics look a bit sketchy to me. It's up to you though.
    •  
      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2013 edited
     
    ^ In the drawing I haven't decided whether it is an Immelmann or a Dive Loop.
    I think the diveloop is a better option than the Immelmann, because with the Diveloop you are direct at ground level and with the immelmann not, and you need two flat sections as you described it.

    After the zero-G a tight turn into the MCBR.



    The only problem is the friction in Newton, Newton says the speed at the MCBR is 23 km/h but in NL it's 32 km/h....
    The friction number in newton is set to Archy's Friction List.
  4.  
    Your having that speed problem too? When I try building a woodie in Newton using Archy's friction settings for GG/GCI, It does this really weird thing where I could be at the bottom of the first drop on a large woodie, and start building a really short air hill and suddenly I'm out of speed :/
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      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2013 edited
     
    Yeah, after the flat section all the speed is lost, like the gravity is 10 times more...
    But the default Newton settings are even worse.

    The new part.
  5.  
    Try for a flatter helix up to the MCBR--that could make it look more natural. Also, why's the station so high up?
    •  
      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2013
     
    Oké, I will change that helix.
    You will see that when the terrain work starts ;)
  6.  
    Please tell me you're making cartextures for this because those shark ones tick me off and ruin the theming in some cases.
    •  
      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2013 edited
     
    ^I will make cartextures yes, but not for now, they will come when I decided which theme it would be.

    The friction problem is solved, I made some versions with different frictions in Newton.
    0,028 seems good, a difference of 3 km/h at the MCBR. So now I have to make some changes to the elements.
    •  
      CommentAuthorWalki
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2013
     

    I actually kind of like the helix. It looks like it would be fun to ride.

    • CommentAuthorTheBeatles
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2013
     
    I say "loosen" the helix a bit. It's very tight at the top, uncomfortably tight.
    •  
      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2013 edited
     
    The improved track.


  7.  
    Well now the helix into the MCBR looks good, but that 0-G roll is just too tight. It should begin sooner and end later, and even on inverts the spine should never appear to "dip" at the crest like that. It should look flat at the most. I think the 0-G in your previous version (but not the first) looked good.
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2013
     
    It appears some of them do dip down slightly, anyways it looks great.
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      CommentAuthorm_haugh16
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2013
     
    can we have a side view of the zero g roll?
    • CommentAuthorbigjoe97
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2013
     
    The zero-g seems fine to me...
  8.  
    It seems a bit too small compared to the cobra roll, the lead in to the turn also looks a bit big.
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      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2013 edited
     
    Side view of the Zero-G


    Also check the difference between the loop and the zero-G.
    But I agree with you, it can be improved.
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2013
     
    Maybe elongate it the slightest bit? It looks like it would ride pretty uncomfortably.
  9.  
    Posted By: JAKoolMaybe elongate it the slightest bit? It looks like it would ride pretty uncomfortably.

    I'm sorry... but... That is TOTALLY what she said!

    Now On-Topic:

    I'm not a fan of the lead-in to the MCBR. It seems to have a real tight radius at the end. I am wondering if you can show a few angles up close of the drop? I can't really see the pre-drop and shaping at the top too well... I don't really want to say anymore, because my opinion about this layout could change with time. Good luck with the rest of the layout!
    • CommentAuthorJAKool
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2013
     
    Posted By: LaunchTowerThat is TOTALLY what she said!


    Says the guy who made a song called "Let's go Hard."
  10.  
    Well played sir...
  11.  
    lol...

    Looks great, the zero-g if anything, is just slightly too fast of a roll. otherwise it looks great! Love the kumba flat.
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      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2013
     
    The layout is finished. And started a bit of terrain work.
     photo Inverted5-130726003832000_zps55c31f0c.png
    Re-work for the Zero-G
     photo Inverted5-130726003856001_zps4f329eb3.png
    After the MCBR
     photo Inverted5-130726003917002_zps3ffcdc02.png
     photo Inverted5-130726004009005_zpsd30050f2.png
  12.  
    I'm not sold on the turn after the second corkscrew. Needs a bit of reworking. And make the texture repeat more, I assume you accidently twiddled the settings?
  13.  
    Your coaster went miniature on us lol. I'm hesitant about the turn after the second cork also but I'll see it when the final version comes (if you keep it).
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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2013
     
    I kinda like the turn after the corkscrew in the last picture, but in the picture above it looks weird. I'd defininitely keep the first part until the MCBR, though.
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      CommentAuthorIntaLSM
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2013
     
    If you're still working on the zero-g roll, I used to have the same problem with the rolling part. What you have to do is reduce the slope of the track up to the roll to create a more realistic element.
  14.  
    •  
      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2013 edited
     
    I added that 270 helix.



    The part after the second corkscrew may look weird, but It rides perfectly fine. It's inspired from Talon.
  15.  
    I liked how it was originally; it seemed more B&M like.
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      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2013
     
    The third picture reminds me of RCT. The turn also looks quite tight compared to Talon, what are the forces?
    •  
      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2013
     
    I'm still working with this project, slow progress but I'm very busy with my new education, so not much free time for me right now.
    In the vacation I did some terrain work. Which is mostly finished.



    Where the track hits the terrain, there will come trenches.


    Render of a trench with support work.
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      CommentAuthorUncleArly
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2013
     
    That looks great!
    • CommentAuthorsbdb2099
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2013
     
    Hi nolimiters,

    i´m really looking forward to the end result since this is getting better with every post. Will you make use of the 3d-supports too, or are they just for the presentation of the trench and will be replaced with NoLimits own? You maybe are aware of my current problems and if you have a solution for this i would be happy to know :).


    Daniel :)
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      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2013
     
    I think I will use the NL supports for straight supports like the first and the third support in the picture.
    And use 3d supports on the parts that bend, like the second support to create those nice transitions.
    You mean the problem, that you see every edge on the support? For that problem I haven't a solution..
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      CommentAuthoraltlenny
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2013
     
    As far as I know there is no solution to that problem in NL1.x because of the way of NL1.x to import and display 3ds objects. There's always the possibility to increase the polygon count to decrease the Mach bands at the cost of performance.