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    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2013 edited
     

    "Can you guess the elements?"

    So after many times of phailure I have convinced myself to revert back to the basic out-and-back layout.

    I'd say even the track is not yet 50% done (although the pic shows about 70% of the track length)

    So I really can't say much more about this, at this stage..,

    lol

    However this thing is going to be wrapped against a mountain ridge (cf. volcano@kd), ("just to make it easier to support").

    And I'm also sure I will include a ~120ft pretzel loop immediately after the shown part.

    Any advice on how the beginning indoor section may look like (which should contain a 180 degree flip), is appreciated :>

    •  
      CommentAuthorWalki
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2013 edited
     

    Failure* (couldn't resist)

    Anyway, I see a lot of awkward shaping and quick transitions. I would rework what you have so far before you move on.

    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2013 edited
     
    Posted By: Walki

    Failure* (couldn't resist)

    Anyway, I see a lot of awkward shaping and quick transitions. I would rework what you have so far before you move on.


    The exit from the barrel roll has just been fixed.

    Have been working on the inclined dive loop, not much success though.

    I believe that one is the trickiest element since all the other elements are pretty much 2d instead of full 3d. I want it to look like half Stengel dive plus half corkscrew, but haven't figured out how to get the pullout angle correct.
    •  
      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2013
     
    Isn't that top hat roll far to quick?
    And that dive loop is ugly shaped..
  1.  
    Trollface Quest is a pretty good name...
    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     

    Hi everyone!

    I am finally able to revive this project after some derping with the basics of fvd.

    I remodelled the top hat so that it has a dive-machine style platform.

    I have used a simple quintic transition for the roll up the top hat:

    Does it look better now?

  2.  
    I like that name.
    •  
      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    The Idea of the dive coaster on a Inverted is weird.
    The real dive coasters are frightening because the track disappear at the end.
    In your case the track is visible, so not frightening.. and the track blocks your view.
    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    Posted By: nolimitersThe Idea of the dive coaster on a Inverted is weird.
    The real dive coasters are frightening because the track disappear at the end.
    In your case the track is visible, so not frightening.. and the track blocks your view.

    It's a 4d coaster.
    The dive is exactly the same as the existing 4d coasters, just entered from the opposite direction. When you drop, the seats will flip and point you head down.
    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     

    A quick sketch of some following elements, just to show you guys the layout.

    Those are all quite simple so I wouldn't mind rebuilding them if the top hat has problems that must be fixed.

    180 degree 0g-roll,

    Immelmann (with roll at the exit)

    MCBR

    Barrel roll (I'm not sure if it's allowed to have an element after the mcbr that must be entered at a speed>0, like here if a train emergency-stopped on the MCBR, it will not be able to continue the course on its own, but must be pushed forward by someone)

    Dive loop (without roll)



    QUESTION, ATTENTION PLEASE:

    Next I want a overbank 180 degree lie-to-fly, like this

    Any suggestions on how to build it?

    •  
      CommentAuthorbaadrix
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    Posted By: kadabriumlike here if a train emergency-stopped on the MCBR, it will not be able to continue the course on its own, but must be pushed forward by someone
    Sound like bad design to me. What about increasing the pitch of the MCBR to at least -2°?
    •  
      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    O sorry, misunderstanding.
    Still not like it.
  3.  
    Download hzgarfield's Starry Sky Ripper, and then copy and save that element.
    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    Posted By: baadrix
    Posted By: kadabriumlike here if a train emergency-stopped on the MCBR, it will not be able to continue the course on its own, but must be pushed forward by someone
    Sound like bad design to me. What about increasing the pitch of the MCBR to at least -2°?

    Done. Any ideas on the overbank?
  4.  
    What overbank? For the MCBR, lodogg used invisible transport's on the brake segments for his Raptor and Mantis recs.
    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013 edited
     
    Posted By: Gorres CoastersDownload hzgarfield's Starry Sky Ripper, and then copy and save that element.

    No trolling in this thread which is so very serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorUncleArly
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    Posted By: Gorres CoastersDownload hzgarfield's Starry Sky Ripper, and then copy and save that element.


    Not unless he asked him first, and even in that case, it's better to build your own.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKingRCT3
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    He can load it in FVD and try to copy it, though. =)
    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    Posted By: KingRCT3He can load it in FVD and try to copy it, though. =)


    Just a random thought.

    If I handbuild a similar element (sounds possible..), AHG it(can AHG treat 180 degree inversions correctly?), load it in FVD, will I be able to see how the forces distribute?

    Not just about this special element, but in the general theory.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKingRCT3
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    No, not possible yet. :(

    FVD can load any track (AHG doesn't matter) as a visual but can't modify it.
    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    Posted By: KingRCT3No, not possible yet. :(

    FVD can load any track (AHG doesn't matter) as a visual but can't modify it.

    Not modify, just check the forces (like how it can show forces on its own geometric/non force based sections)
    •  
      CommentAuthorKingRCT3
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    Yeah, but still nope. :|
    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013
     
    ^lol.

    Get back ye to topic.

    I can't think of how that overbank should be done without lats?
    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2013 edited
     
    Kay before proceeding to the overbank, I have met problems with the immelmann before the mcbr.

    The roll is giving 0.9g lats, which I would attribute to the roll being too short (and/or quick).

    However, I can't extend or flatten the roll section, since the mcbr immediately following it would then become too low for the train to gain enough speed for the rest of the layout.

    One simple solution is of course to revert back to the original layout, where this immelmann didn't have a roll.

    If I do so, I have 2 ways to continue the layout:

    1.extend the barrel roll from 360 to 540, then continue the lie-to fly overbank as originally planned
    2.keep the barrel roll as it is 360, but put a normal (non-inverting) overbank after.

    So what do ye think? Or simply better if you'd have a way to reduce lats on the immelmann while keeping the roll there?
    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeAug 31st 2013 edited
     

    Update on layout.

    Again this is not the final design, due to (reasons including but not limited to) the overbank is temporarily substituted with an inclined dive loop, etc

    I have kept the immelmann as it is, just timewarped the roll a little.

    overbank(inclined dive loop in pic)

    inclined loop

    airtime hill

    flat turn/splashdown

    speed hill

    pretzel loop (having problems shaping the dive loop part..)

    final brakes

    .

    the final break run will protrude out of the mountain and be themed as the cigar of a trollface, just in case you wonder why not turn it around.

    There will be a dark indoor section before the launch where the train flips 180 degrees into flying position.

    edit:

    A closer look at the two problematic elements

    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeSep 2nd 2013
     

    Reshaping the dive loop...

  5.  
    That definitely helped. From here you can tweak to your needs and move on.
  6.  
    I don't know why, but I love this ride. Keep up the good work.
    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeSep 2nd 2013
     

    Now that our immelmann has decided he might as well also look ugly.. mainly because all the clearance issues of an expected 4d wingrider train...

    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeSep 2nd 2013
     

    Knowing this... which happens many times on this ride.

  7.  
    Same block = fine.
    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeSep 2nd 2013 edited
     
    Posted By: Ajax_CoastersSame block = fine.


    My understanding is that for the same section

    it's fine as long as you don't see another piece of track in the tunnel;

    For 2 different sections, you shouldn't see anything which belongs to the other one.

    Right?
  8.  
    Yes, sir.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKingRCT3
    • CommentTimeSep 2nd 2013 edited
     
    Since it's a 4D, forget the ingame tunnel test, it means nothing.
  9.  
    ^Oh yeah, never mind you might be screwed.
    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeSep 2nd 2013
     
    Posted By: KingRCT3Since it's a 4D, forget the ingame tunnel test, it means nothing.

    If only I can make a 3ds appendage to the train for the appropriate width, and then try to derp with fly-by view..
    •  
      CommentAuthorKingRCT3
    • CommentTimeSep 2nd 2013 edited
     
    It gives me an idea! Mess with the CK, put two spines the size of the train and see.
    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeSep 2nd 2013 edited
     

    ^For the first step I'm doing this. Remember the lights on Gatekeeper at night?

    Here in the picture I've used x=1.8m and y=1.5m for the rails. I'm assuming if I use y=height of 4d train, I'll be able to test the thing, but I don't know the exact value.

    Edit: This is for within the same section.

    For clearances between sections,

    I'll just use the simple 1.8m spine and ignore the train rotation radius issue, because there are only 2 instances of it, and both happen when 2 tracks are almost parallel.

    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeSep 3rd 2013 edited
     

    OK, so apparently something very derpic happened to my fvd file.

    After building the station, I exported the element to test in NL and saved the fvd file.

    When I opened the fvd file again however it became this:

    Various parts of the track have been warped and distorted. You can see the station area sinking into the ground.

    This has happened before and I always thought maybe I haven't saved the file properly. Now I'm quite sure this is some sort of bug in the FVD software, since this also happened to my backup file this time.

    I think here the culprit has to be the timewarped roll of the immelmann before the MCBR; For some reason maybe the precision of the timewarping function is not properly recorded in the program, and when loaded again the the data are in some way ''rounded up''.

    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeSep 4th 2013 edited
     

    Maybe eventually I will need to reshape that problematic immelmann.

    I'll update it tomorrow.

    Edit: @atlenny, still tell me what was going wrong with the original track if you have found out,

    but I've decided to rebuild the layout so don't bother sending me that file back.

    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeSep 5th 2013
     

    Well, I still can't trust the internal save function of fvd++; From time to time it will still alter the track shape when loading a file, without visibly changing any force data input.

    After I made this screenshot and reloaded, the end of the track randomly sank 3 meters. When I fixed that (by changing the forces so they now are not equal to those I had before saving) and proceeded to made a replica of the track in the same file, the 2 tracks wouldn't even coincide.

    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2013
     

    How does this look

    •  
      CommentAuthorLiMiT
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2013
     
    So....a 4D with a splashdown? This could be very interesting....
    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2013
     
    Posted By: LiMiTSo....a 4D with a splashdown? This could be very interesting....


    I haven't finally decided where to put a splashdown yet. Maybe immediately after the pretzel loop, but it's a bit tricky to get the train back to the intended station area afterwards.
    •  
      CommentAuthorUncleArly
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2013
     
    Instead of a splashdown, how about a 'Wing dip' like Manta if you don't want a straight section? :)
    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2013
     
    Posted By: UncleArlyInstead of a splashdown, how about a 'Wing dip' like Manta if you don't want a straight section? :)


    If it isn't going to slow the train down, I can simply add the effect to the sweeping turn before the pretzel. What'd think?

    But now, thinking of an awkwardly shaped roll into the brakes that all existing 4Ds have...

    • CommentAuthorkadabrium
    • CommentTimeSep 8th 2013
     

    And here it goes again.

    Actually, how many of you have been using fvd++ windows for some time without any problem?

    • CommentAuthorbigjoe97
    • CommentTimeSep 8th 2013
     
    I've been using it since the beginning, and I haven't encountered anything like this at all.
    •  
      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeSep 8th 2013
     
    I think this is a very large coaster.