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      CommentAuthorAJClarke0912
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2015 edited
     
    NoLimits Central // Coming 2017-ish


    Hello all, you've probably been wondering what we've been hinting at in the Concerned w/Ratings thread about the website and its future. Well, we don't have anything super flashy to show you just yet, but we feel as though you all have been long overdue for an update on what's happening. And it just so happens to be that we are making an entirely new website... from scratch. Since we haven't finalized everything yet, I'm just going to briefly describe some of the goals we are shooting for, as well as some new features planned.

    1. The "Park Page" will be the new way of showing off your NoLimits 2 parks. Right now, NLE uses an outdated format that works primarily for NL1, where users upload one screenshot and post the download. With NoLimits Central, a table will provide a list of all the attractions found in the author's park, which will be edited to his/her discretion. The Park Page will also allow for users to upload more than one screenshot, and in the future, may allow for embedded YouTube videos to allow for some nice teasers. And in an effort to keep server storage and cost down, we're looking at bringing in Steam as an choice alternative download option. Even when linking to Steam Workshop, a user will still be able to create their Park Page as normal, keeping the exchange spirit alive.

    2. The Rating System has been heavily criticized since NL2's debut. With a new game comes new types of members, new ways of creating parks, and a rapid exploration of the limits of the program. Rating for each coaster in a park has become an immense chore, and the rate at which rides get uploaded does not condone for a healthy rating system anymore. First off, rating will not be required to download rides. But for those who do, I think we've come up with a rather unique solution that kills two birds with one stone from the "critical ratings" standpoint. While rating critically will be easier and more fairly represented, we still want to provide a way for those to casually rate with no repercussions and rejection. The rating system and how we use it, I feel, is what makes NLE different from other websites. On the other hand, NoLimits 2 and its Steam front bring new types of users to the community environment, so we need to cater to them as well in a multi-functional system. More of this will be explained as it is developed.

    3. The Design is something we really want to nail this time around. Crafted through a skeuominimalism mindset, this combination of familiar and modern styling will provide the best of both worlds, keeping the site trendy but not so much that it will look dated in a short time. In addition it its style, we're aiming at keeping NoLimits Central responsive and dynamic in both its content and interface. However, the images you will see today do not yet follow this philosophy to its fullest - everything is WIP with very little design touch as it stands.

    NLC v0.1 Alpha Beta Gamma Development SDK IDE CryEngine 3-3.png

    We'll try to keep you guys informed as updates move along. We have even more features planned that we will reveal later as things get finalized. We all deserve a new website - one that isn't an abandoned perpetual machine run by a few goofy moderators. You deserve it. (And so do we.)

    • RideWarriorNation: [Lead Developer]
    • Kevan: [Helps with design]
    • AJClarke0912
    • The_Architect
    • BBSpeed26
    • ASCoasters

    And thank you to all who participated in the Development forum! We will still use you all later as the project progresses.

      ~ Deuces, AJ




    Oh and by the way, A113 and RideWarriorNation are forum moderators as well. For science.
    • CommentAuthorTOGO Fan
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2015
     
    Please make the park upload file limit like a gigabit or so. Right now it is a underwhelming 50mb file upload max. That file size was big for NL1 standards back then, but is pretty average for NL2 parks these days. My Jamp Up Land park is over 130mbs in size currently. NL2 has much much bigger park files than NL1 had.
  1.  
    ^ Already done! I'm using 5GBs as a maximum upload size for the development site and that's what will be used for the production site. I'll make another post later today about what there is so far and some other details about the site.
  2.  
    ^That will be helpful!
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      CommentAuthor1blueshe
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2015
     
    Curious to see what the new forums will look like.
    • CommentAuthorA113
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2015
     
    and so it begins
    • CommentAuthorTheBeatles
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2015
     
    Interesting. Can't wait to hear more.
    • CommentAuthorTOGO Fan
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2015
     
    My Jamp Up Land has a LOT of attractions and sideshows to include in the park's table. 10 coasters, a meat walkthrough ride, a large carnival with over a dozen flat rides, a underwater bowling alley, a cycle railway, three Chinese knockoff rides, three Ferris wheels, A Swiffer duster cleaning ride, a swimming pool, a naughty place playground, three kiddie train rides, a future indoor rainbow restraint, a Vacuum Dr. store with vacuums to buy, a tiny 1MPH ride under one of the jet coasters, and a sitting area with tables and chairs.
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      CommentAuthordapalm
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2015
     
    Really want to see the redesing! Thanks for your work. Is there any estimated time of release?
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      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2015
     
    I'm very curious about the new forums.

    - Maybe it's nice you can set all your coasters in a list, so it appears on the rate box, so users can rate per coaster, instead of find out which coasters are in the park.
    - Will the site be renamed from NoLimits Exchange to NoLimits Central?
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      CommentAuthorUncleArly
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2015
     
    It's a new site, so no, it won't be renamed. The new site will be called NoLimits Central.
    • CommentAuthorMGrides
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2015
     
    Thank you for sharing this information! It´s great how the thoughts of the NLE Team coming together and will making the stay at this site even better in the future. As a daily member (even not logged in) it´s great to read that you´re working on improvements. Thank you for all the hard work and good luck with the developement! :D
    I´m excited to read more of the future of this community *thumbs up* =)
  3.  
    The forums have not been started yet, that'll probably be one of the last things that is done. Right now the site is around more or less 30% complete (depending on what actually make it on the first version). The forums, functionally speaking, will be more or less the same, with a few tweaks. The design will definitely be different, but more on that when it comes. I plan to do livestreams of working on the site every Sunday or so, to keep me working on a consistent basis. It will also be a great form of feedback.

    ^^^^ Not yet, it will more than likely be deployed near the middle to end part of the year.
  4.  
    When this is called nolimits central, I'm still going to call it nolimits exchange..

    #rebel
    •  
      CommentAuthorUncleArly
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2015
     
    I don't think people are understanding, it's going to be a different site, haha. It's not just a re branding of this one. They cannot change this one so the only option is to make a new one.
  5.  
    ^ Yes thank you for clarifying that. NLE will serve as a 2009-2015 archive. Moderation will probably be discontinued here following the week of deployment; if you're bothered about having to create a new account for NLC, please don't be, it will definitely be worth it!
    •  
      CommentAuthorcb0688
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2015 edited
     
    Thank you for the update and thanks to all of those taking the time to make this happen! Really looking forward to it.
    • CommentAuthorsprog
    • CommentTimeJan 21st 2015
     
    Excellent, nice to see steps have been taken to help NLE evolve into something bigger and better... Even if it means moving to a new site!
  6.  
    Nice to see that the site will be updated eventually.
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      CommentAuthorNoworyta
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2015
     
    Really looking forward to this. Thank you developers of this future site! I think it is much needed, AJ I am also looking forward to "This is NoLimits 2" If you still plan on doing that.
    • CommentAuthorSkye
    • CommentTimeJan 22nd 2015
     
    You are ahead of the game by forcing Image sizes to be 1000 pixels yes? (And will be in bbcoding yes?)
  7.  
    They'll likely be set to 1024 and/or reactive to your browser width if it's possible.
    • CommentAuthorSkye
    • CommentTimeJan 23rd 2015
     
    I think it would be good for 1080 for the pictures. and it'll resize to fit the monitor and site. correctly (For the person)(
  8.  
    The images will be responsive, so they will scale down with the browser width. Like I've said multiple times, the forums have not yet been developed, but I'm thinking of ways to implement posting images. Of course they could be linked outside of the site, from say imgur, but the pages would still load slow if there are a lot of images (however the will be scaled down via css). OR there could be upload functionality to the site, that way the images can be processed through nlc and actually changed in size. Or a mixture of the two. That is the option I would go with but I realize that it becomes an inconvenience for people who want to host their images on an external site such as imgur or flickr. I've set up a strawpoll http://strawpoll.me/3299126 so let me know what you all think :]

    As for markup languages, Markdown is going to be used for that and will be consistent throughout the site.
    •  
      CommentAuthornolimiters
    • CommentTimeJan 23rd 2015
     
    I would say both, because there are a lot of people struggling with posting images on the forum so then they can upload it easy,
    but I would still like to simply link a image with html or something.
    • CommentAuthorsbdb2099
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2015
     
    This sounds great. I wish everybody involved the necessary motivation. I´m sure this will be well appreciated by a lot of users.

    Thumbs up...
    Daniel :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorJAMMYD778
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2015
     
    This sounds like a great project. I highly approve of images reacting to browser size ;-) Hopefully it will open up the NL exchange concept to more of the NL community.
    •  
      CommentAuthorgeforcefan
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2015
     
    Is there any plans of migrating existing users and postings?
  9.  
    We don't have access to the server files. The plan is for everyone to register on the new site, and carry on as normal. Then little by little, most rides and popular threads can be uploaded and created. It is unfortunate that we will be leaving a large part of the communities history behind, but we can only use what is available to us.
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      CommentAuthorintim305
    • CommentTimeJan 29th 2015
     
    is it possible to have some way of getting to the old tracks? it would be a shame to just delete all of them. maybe if you left this site up and visible (along with the forums) but inaccessible from the point of view of uploading and commenting, it could just redirect you to the new site if you try to comment/upload? that way all these awesome uploads could still be accessed
    • CommentAuthorJetPulse
    • CommentTimeJan 29th 2015
     
    We don't have any control over what really happens to this site (since Matt's dropped off the face of the earth), which is why the new site is being made. So, whether the content from this site is left available isn't in our hands.
  10.  
    ^ Yep, there is no way of us to do any sort of major changes to this site that isnt a feature (eg, we can add forums, but can't change the way it looks). Matt must still be paying the bill so it will probably stay up. If Matt comes back and wants to work on moving data (probably just exchange data) to the other site with me I'd be more than happy to work on that. This will also (as I said previously) serve as an archive of sorts.
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      CommentAuthorUncleArly
    • CommentTimeJan 29th 2015
     
    Posted By: intim305is it possible to have some way of getting to the old tracks? it would be a shame to just delete all of them. maybe if you left this site up and visible (along with the forums) but inaccessible from the point of view of uploading and commenting, it could just redirect you to the new site if you try to comment/upload? that way all these awesome uploads could still be accessed


    Posted By: RideWarriorNationNLE will serve as a 2009-2015 archive


    As long as the site keeps getting paid for (which is clearly is right now even Matt does not seem to want any interest in it) then you'll still be able to come on here and download old tracks.
  11.  
    I've come with some more information on the rating system. An influence algorithm is something that Justin has been wanting to implement in NLE2.0 for some time, and now, thanks to the help of altlenny for creating amazing equations for this, it is ready to be implemented!

    The algorithm works loosely like so: rates will now have a specific amount of votes; these votes will serve as more than just an indicator of good vs bad rates. The amount of votes will be placed into the algorithm, along with the rate value, and will influence the overall impact that rate has on the coaster. For instance, let's say a park has two rates, (6 and 10). Well, the first rate's score of 6 is reasonable, so let's say 7 people upvote that. But as it turns out, the community honestly doesn't believe the track deserves a 10, so 5 people downvote the second rate. After the rates and rate votes are run through the algorithm the total score is not 8, but rather 6.086 (which would be rounded to 6.1). The bad rate has nearly no effect on the overall coaster's score! This provides self moderation of sorts. There is also an algorithm that serves as an 'account bias' of sorts, the more upvotes you have, the more account bias points you'll have. Those points are just added to the overall influence sum, but it doesn't affect the overall rate nearly as much as the votes do.

    The framework I'm using to make NLC is about to have a major release on Tuesday, so I'm waiting for that and will get back to work after it's released :]
    •  
      CommentAuthorAJClarke0912
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2015 edited
     
    Here's a snippet to help further explain what RWN means:

    Influence is going to be the real attribute of the new exchange. The user will see their personal Influence as a number next to their name in the profile, similar to how they do now. However, there is more to it than that, as there will be two types of Influence.

    1. First is the Specific Influence: the Influence tied to the rating. When a user rates, other users can upvote or downvote just like they do already. However, when users votes on ratings, this changes the Influence of that rating. They will be voting on the ratings they think are the best at that moment, similar to sorting reddit comments. But that's not all - Specific Influence does just what it implies. When users upvote a rating, that rating will have more leveraging power over other ratings for that specific upload. This factored with the Overall Influence will determine the final Influence over that specific rating.


    2. Second is the Overall Influence: the Influence tied to the account. Overall Influence is gained through posting good, critical ratings, which other users vote on to increase the Specific Influence. All of these votes are stored just as they are now into a user's Overall Influence. As their Overall Influence climbs, so does the starting bonus of their future ratings.


    So now that you're properly confused, how do these types of Influence come in to play? Let's think of some scenarios.



    In this scenario (LeFlo's "Blind Twister"), I am a user with 167 Overall Influence. Before I post my rating, I already have a little extra Influence than someone with, say, 50 Overall Influence. This is due to my past ratings having been deemed credible and of proper quality by the community, so it is logical to assume I will rate well again.

    After I completed the rating and submitted it, it turns out that roughly 7 people have found my rating to be of good quality - 7 Specific Influence. My rating will now play a bigger role in the overall score than other ratings that may only have 1 or 0 upvotes. However, my rating will not be as influential as DC High Heat's, which has 17 Specific Influence. Also, DC High Heat may hold more or less Overall Influence, which could alter his effect on the ride's final rating as well.



    Now for a theoretical scenario. Let's say that I posted a controversial rating on Blind Twister, giving it a 6.0 tech, 5.0 adrenaline, and 6.5 originality. (We will not use the T,A,O form in the future, but for now we'll use it for this example.) Perhaps my motive was to use my Overall Influence I've acquired over the years to cheat the exchange and try to lower LeFlo's score significantly, as I just released a new project that I want people to pay attention to more. Dirty.

    However, my fiendishly evil plans were put to a halt! Users on the exchange downvoted my rating to -5. While it's a small price to pay on some damage to my Overall Influence (now 163), the real action comes in the Specific Influence. Since my vote score is very low, my rating now has nearly zero Influence for LeFlo's upload! If the rating is still a problem, we can address how I rated in the "Concerned w/Ratings" thread, but in the end my rating does not affect LeFlo's final score. At this point we can simply leave my sour rating on the exchange and continue on. Self-moderating done by popular vote.

    This also will work for spam ratings, which would be downvoted to give very little influence over the final rating. We will also be looking at providing an easier way to rate and/or alternatives to rating. As of right now, it's undecided as to whether or not rating is required to download more. rides.
  12.  
    ^ Ratings won't be required, I think a lot of people have had enough of the forced rating system
    • CommentAuthorTOGO Fan
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2015
     
    I am so glad that you will not have to rate to be able to download!! Now people will not have to do anything under the sun to submit a "rating" to get to the download.
    •  
      CommentAuthorknexrule11
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2015
     
    Personally, I strongly like required ratings. Just speaking truthfully here, I'll never rate coasters if there isn't a system like the current one. I just don't have the time, the system is what encourages me to rate. I'm sure this will go along with others as well. I personally like forced ratings for most rides, as it means you have to rate more, and as well others rate your models more. That is the reason I have always preferred NL-E over CC (no offense to CC, still an ok site), I think that is one reason this site has survived so long as well. I think this should at least be put up for community discussion, vs being decided by a whole of 5ish people.
  13.  
    ^ Alrighty then, vote here: http://strawpoll.me/3532332
    • CommentAuthorTheBeatles
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2015
     
    I can't vote
  14.  
    ^ Sorry, linked to the results, the link is fixed now
    • CommentAuthorTOGO Fan
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2015
     
    I just voted.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAJClarke0912
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2015 edited
     
    Well, the reason that we're still deciding is because we may have an option to comment without rating. Things are still being pushed around, but the Influence system will likely stay in its own form. If "forced", the requirements would be lower (i.e. 1/10 rides have to be rated) and the character count might be even lower.
  15.  
    I definitely think the forced ratings should be keeped. I know for a fact I will never rate a ride without it, and most people will probably be the same. IF you get rid of it I doubt many rides would ever get more than One or two
    •  
      CommentAuthorride_op
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2015
     
    It may be possible to do both. The forced rating system could be a simple up/down vote or a single 1-10 rating. A comment would be optional but would add to your influence and could be worth more toward your minimum percent rides rated. Like a comment would be worth 3 normal votes or something like that. So download 20 parks and you'd have to rate 3 of the parks with a 1-10 score or leave a good comment on one of the parks to satisfy the minimum requirement.

    -Ride_Op
    • CommentAuthorJetPulse
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2015
     
    Posted By: AJClarke0912We will also be looking at providing an easier way to rate and/or alternatives to rating.

    I think the discussion here about forced ratings is a little uninformed. There's more to the picture that's been discussed in pretty good detail and I think that based on the limited information that was given out in this thread, many of the opinions can be just that: uninformed. I'll leave it to AJ to decide how much he wan't to bring the community up to speed. I think that the information about the new Influence system is good to show people, but there's more changes to the rating system than just that, and having a community discussion about the rating system without a full up-to-date picture of the new system isn't going to be very fruitful.
  16.  
    ^^ That sounds interesting, I think Archy was talking about something like that on skype.

    ^ Really what we've posted is sort of everything that will be implemented, as far as I know. Admittedly I haven't read all of the rating system thread on the dev forum, but I am aware of what people have in mind (more or less).

    So far I know I'm going to be implementing
    - the influence algorithm
    - anti-spam services

    By Tuesday I think a decision on what type of rating system will be on NLC will be made. Right now we're thinking of either: 1. not having a forced rating system, or 2. having a forced rating system, but much less demanding on the user (i.e. ride_op's suggestion, or changing the rate ratio from 1/5 to 1/20).

    To avoid lack of development because lack of cohesive/organized ideas, I'll be adding the functionality and features and what not to the site, reporting to AJ, see what he thinks, change some stuff if needed, etc. That way there can be at least a finished product soon, which can be modified if needed.
  17.  
    Yeah RWN posted the poll a bit early before I could explain. I think that's the closest I could get for now before I copy/paste the whole thread of information given out to dev helpers. I may release more info tonight if time provides.
  18.  
    I started a development blog thing for nlc so check it out every couple weeks to see the latest progress!

    http://programmar.io/dev/ridewn
  19.  
    chatroom PLEASE. NoLimits hasn't been the same for me since losing the Queue.