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    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2016 edited
    I've had this question on my mind for a while, and don't want to derail the Ask thread with this;

    Why do people play NL2 so differently than NL1? There's an obvious difference in the way people are approaching building coasters; Not that its a bad thing, were either, where the popular rides of nl1 were massive, insane and inane creations that where out of this world, yet in NL2, even though its mostly a improved and updated nl1 with a better building system, the popular rides are very based in reality and don't have the same air of wildness and raw thrill that the older simulation had. I want to get the community take on this, its got me confused. (No this is not a complaint, I like nl2 how it is, it works superb.)

    If you don't see what I'm talking about just compare things like Sokobansolvers Polaris and Ghost of Beast(youtube), Gaia, Ganja, etc to the rides currently on the exchange 'top of the year' (See Projection and Sixflagmanias catalouge of rides).

    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2016
    Since NL2 looked more realistic I guess people wanted to focus more on realism rather than creativity, something I also do not like. We see all the time when someone makes a really cool element or ride and people put it down because "B&M would never do that" or "that shaping is wrong in real life". People seem to be less focused on using it as a fun simulation and more focused on trying to design real coasters.
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2016 edited
    I don't see anything wrong with it, peronally i have fun by creating realistic coasters that i can look at and believe could be manufactured. I see people complaining about how people put others down when they create new elements but i never actually see it happen?.. I've created plenty of my own unique elements that B&M hasn't done before (see most of the elements on Wyvern) and didn't catch any flack for them. I do however agree that there is a severe lack of fantasy coasters and like Paradox i would probably say it's because NL2 is presented as a much more realistic simulator than NL1. People are focused on what gives them enjoyment, no one is here just to put others down, everyone is here to have fun. Whether they have fun by creating coasters straight out of their wildest dreams of or intricate designs that focus on tiny details is entirely their decision.
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2016
    If NL2 came preloaded with updated fantasy maps as it once did (such as Harry Potter or Star Wars™©®), it might inspire people to be more original and accepting! Actually now that I think of it, I call any of you who read this to consider taking an old NL1 map and update it with better materials and models, but the same basis! #unitenolimits no, that isn't a working link. Yes, I am a tryhard xD
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2016 edited
    I always think about this.

    Two years ago, the game had a lot more to do with being unique in your style and innovation. Since the game was extremely limited and not very powerful back then, there was much less of a focus on realism. If there wasn't a track or coaster style you wanted, then you had to use something different and deal with it. Nowadays, if I used the Intamin hyper style to make a Mack launch coaster, I would get screamed at and ridiculed.

    I think the reason that people get so much push-back for straying from realism is that there's no reason to. Not now, now that we have almost anything we could ask for in the simulator. People want familiar environments that look nice and are fun to walk around in, with cool, realistic coasters. Not so much a fantasy land to fly around all the interesting but surreal rides. I remember some attempts at flat rides with coasters. It was fun to try and emulate realism, but now that it's here, we can do so at the drop of a hat.

    I wouldn't say that style itself is dead though. Many people on this forum have distinct flavors that creep into their creations, making them unique. Some examples: Projektion, Cheetah, Womp83, and more. Also, if you'll recall, there are still some amazing fantasy coasters in NL2: Bounce, Point Solitude, Destroid, and still many others. It's not that people suddenly want to make more realistic coasters, it's that they suddenly have the ease and capacity to, where earlier, making a realistic coaster in a park setting would be ridiculously hard, and wouldn't look that good.

    But more people should definitely make fantasy coasters.
    • CommentAuthorInkyz
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2016
    My distinct flavour is the crunchy bit in soft food that freaks you out aka it's extremely bad
    • CommentAuthorBigbad
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2016
    Posted By: 6FlagsManiacWhether they have fun by creating coasters straight out of their wildest dreams of or intricate designs that focus on tiny details is entirely their decision.
    I think Cheetah's point is that people tend to go for the latter.

    My interest is in the fantasy coasters. I'll probably never make a small GCI or B&M floorless. You will see me making a 200ft wood coaster influenced by Intimidator 305 and a 400ft B&M hyper, though!
    On the topic of making fantasy coasters i made a hyper coaster with 32 cars it starts as high as you can build goes as far under ground as possible and has 49 g's at the pullout
    • CommentAuthorBigbad
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2016
    As you mentioned in another thread, you have to work on your shaping.
    I wanted it to pull 49 g's as it is not realistic in the slightest it was just for fun
    This is interesting; I kind of feel like the opposite is the case -- since NL2, most of the highly-rated rides coming out have been really, really original / well-themed, and they've been coming out much more frequently. If you need evidence, look no further than the NL2 Roundups (especially 100), where the top entries are usually really really good when it comes to theming / layout originality.

    I feel like NL2 has allowed people to make smoother / more "realistic" rides much more easily, which has allowed the amount of time it takes to build ultra-realistic-looking rides to decrease somewhat. (Vastly improved depumping tool! 2D Make Straight means it's now much easier to make 2D linear paths! No need for AHG to heartline rides anymore! Storage tracks! Automatic underground tunnels! Trenches are so much easier to make!) As a result, I feel like people (like me) have stopped looking too much at how "that dive loop of yours has a roll rate 2.6 deg/sec too fast, reduce the roll rate". I think that we've instead started to simply look more at how the layout actually flows (Do your crests / valleys have "just-right" radii? Do your roll transitions blend easily into each other?) -- and if that's covered well, we've also begun to look more at the theming (Do your theming elements "fit" with each other? Is the environment immersive enough?) and layout design (What attributes did you get from other existing rides / concepts? Were you able to improve on these existing concepts, and how? How does it differ from every other ride, real or otherwise, of the same nature?).

    Thus, I feel that that has affected our building style in some way -- if before, a short, unthemed but smooth and perfectly manufacturer-accurate Montu-type B&M Invert would have been one of the 5 most memorable rides of the year, now we have some really great-looking rides like Aureole or the Dead Factory coasters popping up left and right. That's what I see, anyway.

    I like this discussion and am also curious to see what other people think of this!
    • CommentAuthorWomp83
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2016
    I was about to make a comment and say "This is where i come in.." But i see MorganFan already has that base covered, hahaha.

    I'd have to agree with some of the above posts and say that because NL2 has a more realistic graphical look to it than NL1 did, i get the feeling that people are leaning towards creating more realistic rides and making something that looks like it could be built in a real park somewhere in the world. But ultimately, it's a program that offers creative freedom for anyone to make whatever ride they want, however they want to do it. And it's now so much easier to create something amazing than it was in NL1, thanks to all the helpful tools the dev team added to the program. (except scripting, that's still difficult, lol)
    But as MorganFan mentioned, there are some of us out there who aren't afraid to stray off the path, cut our own trail through the undergrowth and try something different.
    My 2cents...... I DON'T GIVE A S***! #ingnorant xD
    I play all coaster games like they are rollercoaster tycoon 3 XD
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2016 edited
    I have at least an idea that should be "a realistic fantasy coaster ride", that "melts together the realistic and fantasy world", but I've other projects that I want to finish first. *turning ridiculous mysteric speaking mode off*.

    My feeling is that about the same amount of realistic, fantasy and somewhere in between projects are made.
    The train is 32 cars long!
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2016 edited
    Having been around the NL community for quite some time (about half it's entire lifespan), here's my two cents:

    Most of it is rosy restrospection IMO. We remember the true highlights of NL1 but easily forget the bad. The mid to late 2000's seemed to really be NL's peak before CoasterSims collapsed. Also, we are essentially comparing 13 years of NL1 history to 2 years (!) of NL2 history. Coming from someone who's been around a while, the rate of progress with NL2 has been almost impossible for me to keep tabs on. And since I feel like I can't keep up with the amount of great rides being released, it's almost made me raise my standards a bit for what I should spend time paying attention to. We really are experiencing a boom right now in my opinion. Not necessarily on this specific website, but across the Internet.

    Now, want to know what hyper-realism is in at the moment?

    Posted By: Luisvaldez989I feel like NL2 has allowed people to make smoother / more "realistic" rides much more easily, which has allowed the amount of time it takes to build ultra-realistic-looking rides to decrease somewhat.

    This right here. (Un)fortunately, since NL2 makes it so easy to build a very realistic ride, people's standards for what's considered realistic has gone up immensely. Everyone can build a smooth track now, and that makes the baseline go way up. Take a look back at what was ultra-realistic during NL1 - hell, if it was smooth, survivable, and had a realistic sense of scale, then it was generally accepted! Further extending that, we certainly had a few standout hits that could honestly be comparable to today's creations in terms of track quality. But in other categories? I'm not so sure.

    It's honestly gotten quite ridiculous (in a good way) of how much one can build into their ride. Custom scripts, greatly expanded scenery options, foliage, and more. It's not only no longer good enough to have a smooth track, but it's also not good enough to have a smooth track resembling a manufacturer style "pretty closely". If you want to be renowned as a good realistic designer now, it's expected to be dead on with exquisite detail because everyone's so good now. When Elementary and Newton became widely-used tools, the bar was raised because it was so easy for people to make smooth and realistic tracks. Such is the same today - not only do we have an excellent FVD tool, but also an amazing handbuilding tool, which arguably wasn't so in the past. No matter the method it's insanely easy to build a realistic track.

    Standards have now risen. It's honestly not surprising coming from a very enthusiastic, niche community who was left unguarded to analyze and dwell on "the art of track shaping" for over the past decade.
    I'm fairly new to this community (or NoLimits as a whole). I think one thing that is now very prevalent, be it for good or bad, is that a coaster now is just not enough. Look at the biggest and best projects in NoLimits. Very few of them seem to be just a coaster with a few trees (yes, there are exceptions before someone cites Projektion's rides which are mostly just coaster and trees + terrain editting, not much custom scenery). X-Reborn is a good example of how scenery and scripts make a ride unique, it's an amazing coaster but there's lots of scripting and 3Ds too, this is what separates it from say another good 4D coaster. I'd say if someone new to the community cannot 3D model or script now it is very unlikely they will create a massive hit.

    I think that's why we need stuff like the Purism contest to show that sometimes the beauty of twisted metal can outweigh 3Ds and scripting! :)

    Also noticed in the Exchange the highest rated rides seem to be dominated by 4Ds, probably as they are so hard to create?
    • CommentAuthorTOGO Fan
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2016
    How about all the weird things i make in NL2. Like my newish smoking themed coaster, jamp up land, gladness island and making Chinese knockoff coasters and flat rides out of 100% supports.
    ^^ You're reading my mind. It's not necessarily for the better or worse, but you can't just make a stand-alone ride anymore**

    **There are some exceptions